Hive Tyrant Options

[warfrogger]

Hey guys. Just took the nid plunge and was looking for some advice for a Hive Tyrant. I am not a super competitive person but I have been having some issues figuring out what to build this guy as. I do plan to get a second one at some point to make a flyrant but the first one is going to be a ground tyrant. My biggest dilemma come between the following 2 choices.

-Bonesword & whip vs Scything Talons
-Heavy Venom vs Stranglethorn

For the bonesword vs talons the biggest dilemma is I typically face marine armies. So ID a HQ or whatnot every so often could be good but with high leadership and the inability to dual wield swords making it 3d6 its not gonna happen often. Also the tyrants CC attacks are already AP 2 so the anti armor save part isn''t doing too much. And again with Marines the base I5 is going to be better most of the time anyway so the lashwhip isn't seeming to attractive either. Rerolling 1's is decent but that's all they talons do and it seems a bit of a waste to do the free downgrade. I could take Old adversary with the bonesword (which doesn't need to be modeled) and gain the same thing for more cost and keep the Bone Sword Benefits.

As for the Heavy Venom vs Stranglethorn I just have no clue. Whats your opinions on them. I am kinda leaning towards the Stranglethorn as its reminiscent of my submunitions shots with my Tau which has never really disappointed. However the extra strength of the Heavy Venom would be better at taking off the odd HP of mech lists as unlike tau railhead the Stranglethorn can't become S 10 AP 1 on command.

Any help given is appreciated.

[WestRider]

The Lash Whip is the better of the two CC options. Brings others down to I1 when you have to Charge into Cover, and it can literally be a lifesaver against a few of the nastier CC Opponents, a few of which have ridiculous Init values.

The two big guns both kind of suck, honestly. A pair of Devourers is the best firepower option a Tyrant can get, really.

Truth be told, many people just forgo the Combat upgrades entirely, and go for two pairs of Devs. It's called a DevilTyrant or DakkaTyrant, and 12 S6 Shots, with Re-rolls to Hit, usually ends up dishing out more damage than either of the big guns would, and is useful against anything short of AV13.

[gigasnail]

the big guns are generally bad for many reasons (mostly because they're...bad. 1 shot, blast, 50%ish to hit, no overwatch/snapfire, can never shoot flyers).

the CC options in this edition are equally bad. whip/sword does equalize charging through cover, but that's all it does. you already hit at AP2 as an MC, and if you need to ID paladins or something, smash them. it's a lot more effective than expecting an LD10 unit to fail an LD test more than half the time. if you are worried about charging at I1 into something with power weapons and high initiative, here's a tip: DON'T. shoot the hell out of it while swooping and laugh at your opponent's combat deathstar as you tarpit it with free poisoned termagants and forget it the rest of the game. send the flyrant after squishier, more high priority targets like heavy weapons/longfangs/etc that you may have difficulty assaulting normally. charging him into a unit of power weapon wielding Death Company is a nice way to watch an expensive flyrant turned into chunky salsa.

and if you want rerolls from ST, take OA and give those rerolls to all friendly units as a bubble effect.

X2 TL BL devourers add 12 TL S6 shots that are precision hits (because a tyrant is a character. this allows you to take out that troublesome PF/LC champion, banner-bearer, or whatever) before you assault. no other combat or shooting upgrade touches this. there is literally no reason to ever take anything else.

[Squire]

For competitive play, a winged tyrant with quad devourers is always the way to go

For semi competitive play, there are quite a few valid options (which is what makes it more fun for me). I'd take the stranglethorn over the heavy venom, but I'd rather just rely on biovores and warriors' barbed stranglers for large anti infantry blasts. I don't think it's such a bad option though, and it isn't inconceivable that I'd field a HT with a stranglethorn.

Devourers are still a good option on a footrant, despite being far more valuable for a flyrant.

I've got a winged HT with LW&BS and scything talons waiting to be painted. The intention is to use it as a problem solver early in the game (typically to get at backfield units or perhaps vehicles) before (if he's still alive) throwing him into combat with some nasty stuff to see out the rest of the game, one way or another

For a HT on foot I'd resist the temptation to give it two or three tyrant guard and just invest a few points into another hive tyrant. I think tyrant guard are a little expensive for protecting anything other than a swarmlord. Maybe many would disagree, but I think if you intend to invest a lot of points in a hive tyrant it may as well be a flyrant or swarmlord

[Deleted]

HVC is garbage. To score a hit and remove 1hp from av12 your odds are 2/9 and it cannot pen-wreck anything unless it's open-topped. Pretty terrible for a 200+ point unit. Dual Drvourers odds of removing 1hp from av12 are 9/6 and it can pen-wreck av10/11.

STC isn't bad, but not very ideal for a Tyrant unless you regularly face footblobs with 5+ or worse. It doesn't have the flexibility the dual Devourers have. Against GEQ dual Devs on a Tyrant will score an average of 5 wounds, which isn't much less than an STC would get with decent hits, while providing the ability to threaten armor.

Best CC loadout is his default setup. With Iron Arm, Smash, Boneswords and Enfeeble things like Toxin Sacs and Implant Attack are kindve un-necessary.

Unless you face lots of plasma/ap2, Armored Shell with one Tyrant Guard is particularly tough. If the Tyrant has Iron Arm the Guard will use the Tyrants buffed toughness as it is the highest majority. Then you can tank ap3 with the tyrant and LoS ap2 hits with the Guard. Also nice since ap2 PWs aren't as common anymore.

Old Adversary is nasty on a Dual Devourer Tyrant, particulary Flyrants who can quickly bolster another unit.

Hive Commander is awesome if you have lots of Pods/Ymgarls, good for quick target saturation.

[coredump]

If you go full CC loadout, I could see keeping the codex powers.... not sure if I would, but it is reasonable.

[warfrogger]

Thanks for the input guys its a big help. Again I am not super competitive but I do play the occasional game that I want it to be somewhat effective in. The Tyrant just doesn't seem right to me without one of its CC upgrades. That said you guys really sold me on the Brainleach Devourers so I think I will give him Bonesword/Whip and one pair of TL Devourers. Again you have been a huge help thanks.

[tylertt]

Just remember being a MC already gives you the majority of bonus's the Boneswords have to offer. And with the initiative of the Tyrant as is, only Eldar and DE will really get to consistently get that first hit on you. So depending on your Opponent, the second set of Devs may be a little bit more effective.

From a fluff perspective, I completely see your point of a Tyrant being weird without some CC weapons equiped.

[Lanesend]

I think the lash whip is a solid choice for a CC Tyrant. A smart opponent will make sure you're assaulting through cover, and with our lack of assault grenades, hitting at the same tiime (as opposed to hitting last), can make a big difference.

That said, I run an Armored shell Tyrant with 2x devs, and it's still very dangerous in CC.

[ranmafan]

I typically field 2 tyrants:

1) LS/BS, ST or 1x TL Dev walking Tyrant with Armoured Shell, Old Adversary (and depending on my list, Hive Commander)
- His main role is to provide a buff bubble around him for the rest of the army; they're typically shooting models like Hive Guards, Biovores, the occasional Dakkafex, etc.
- Depending on how the game goes, I typically throw him into the middle of the fight where his buff bubble can aid all my gaunts/gargoyles/other models locked in combat.

Note that the only reason I take this variant over the Swarmlord is because the Old Adversary buff affects all models in a radius around it rather than a single unit.

2) Dakka Flyrant - Depending on my list (again), I might field him with Old Adversary supporting an army of gargoyles, shrikes, other fast attack options. His main role is to take out vindicators or other dangerous units, and also acts like a great big distraction - everyone will be gunning for him rather than the gargoyles or shrikes. He also helps Zoanthropes or other deepstriking models (with an AS walking tyrant providing Hive Commander) with additional buffs to their shooting and wounding.

[warfrogger]

Pseudo-Grenades was what my thoughts of the Bonesword and Lash Whip were Lanesend. I can always take Old Adversary to reroll ones if i want too and it also applies to shooting. Prior to this topic I didn't even look at the Deathspitter/Devourer options but now Devourer on the MC's looks pretty good too me. That most likely what I will run as is BS/LW and TL Dev. This army is being built as a friendly slow grow campaign with 500 points being the first match. Tyrant is too expensive for 500 points but I like the model and wanted to start working on it. IMO Nid MC's need to have 1 CC weapon as I feel they don't look right without it. I know its not always the most effective option but my main goal is to run a swarm with a few MC's and look good doing it. That's why my First 500 point list has 50 toxin h-gaunts and a prime.

Thanks again everyone for your input. It's nice to see an active supportive Nid Community.

[gman25639]

Give him paroxysm psychic power and have him near a group of genestealers. He drops enemy's WS and BS to 1 and then the genestealers charge and shred them. I run my tyrant in a support role rather than direct combat, he lasts a lot longer that way and ultimately makes the rest of your swarm more effective. I use HVC and lash/bonesword. Ive even gone as far as to use him as a really beefy bodyguard for my tyrannofex. Dont wanna lose that S10 gun.
That S9 HVC wipes out space marines which is what i usually playagainst.

[harry4tw]

@gman: I don't see many players who run tyrannofexes. You should start a t-fex thread and let us know about your strategies.

[infornography]

A strength 9 AP4 blast doesn't do much to space marines unless they are REALLY clustered tight. The S9 is complete overkill and isn't any better than S6 and it might as well be AP- It can't even do anything appreciable to any SM vehicles other than Land Speeder Storms which I have never seen fielded.

In my experience a blast isn't likely to get more than 3 or 4 models and of those 3 or 4 models only one is likely to fail an armor check.

What exactly are you doing with it that has an appreciable effect on Space Marines?

[gman25639]

I repeatedly fire it at the same unit as he walks towards them. By the time hes in assault range, around half of them have died and he cuts them apart in assault.