SM List (2000)

[andy089]

As if there weren't enough threads like this - here is my idea for a SM army for casual/semi-competitive games. Let me know what you think. (It's 1850 points)

HQ: Pedro Kantor

Elite: 10 Sternguard Vets + 2 Heavy Flamers + 3 Combi-Flamers + 5 Combi-Meltas + Drop Pod

Elite: 5 Sternguard Vets + 5 Combi-Plasmas + Rhino + Dozer Blade

Troops: 10 Snipers + Telion + Camo Cloaks

Troops: 5 Snipers + Missile Launcher + Camo Cloaks

Troops: 10-man Tactical Squad + Missile Launcher + Flamer + Rhino + Dozer Blade

Fast Attack: 2 Land Speeders + Multimeltas + Typhoon Missile Launcher

Heavy Support: Thunderfire Cannon + Drop Pod

Heavy Support: Thunderfire Cannon + Drop Pod

Fortification: Imperial Bastion + Quad Gun

Tactics:

The bastion is put pretty much in the middle of the board, snipers with telion infiltrate onto it, telion mounting the quad gun, dealing with fliers and sniping enemy characters.

The Drop Pods of the Thunderfire Cannons come in turn 1, one to the left and one to the right of the bastion for cover. The Thunderfire cannons themselves are places somewhere in the backfield, ideally in bolstered ruins, shooting into hordes or at vehicles (to slow them).

The Land Speeders go around shooting the missiles until some high-AV vehicles pose a immediate threat.

The 10-man sternguard drops in and splits up, 1x3 Combi-flamers and 2 Heavy flamers with Kantor and 1x5 Combi-Meltas - the Flamer guys camp and objective while the melta guys deal with marines and heavy armor.

the 5 man squad drives around in the rhino, disembarks and stays around the drop pods that came in on turn 1.

the 10 man Tactical squad and the 5 man sniper squads there to grab/contest objectives.

The Rhinos have Dozer Blades so they can move rather freely as they provide mobile cover for the 5-man sternguard and the tactical squad as they move between the drop pods and the bastion.


EDIT: I changed that to 2000 since I want to use 2 fortifications and also it's played more often around here. see my post from june 6th for the updated list =)

[infornography]

I find that dangerous terrain is of such a minor concern that the cost of dozer blades is rarely worth it.

I'm not sure why you have the drop pods with the TFCs... You said you are placing the TFCs in the backfield and deploying the pods separately. To what end? Why would you do this?

Also placing your TFCs in the backfield and the bastion in the middle, I think you will find that the bastion obscures a lot of line of sight for them.

And lastly, why did you put a missile launcher with your sniper scouts? The target priorities are completely different. Sniper scouts can't to squat to vehicles. I guess you could rely on the blast but instead you could get the much more dangerous to infantry Heavy Bolter with hellfire rounds. That way if you are hankering to fire blasts, at least your blasts will wound on 2's instead of 4's against most targets.

I don't think the Typhoon will serve you well on those speeders. I would recommend trading them out for a second multimelta.

Otherwise, this list could be very effective. Mostly strong shooting units. I think you will find those Rhinos end up dead VERY quickly as they are the only anti vehicle firepower targets worth aiming at aside from the TFCs which will have a 3+ armor and cover save, but they still will provide cover as craters or a smoking ruin.

[andy089]

The drop pods for the TFCs are there to provide cover where I want it, independent of the terrain of the battlefield. The rhinos are there to bring some units to the middle of the field before just standing around providing cover. Since I have 2 TFCs I can use them from either side, so that shouldn't be a big problem. Also, I think telion+quad gun has a higher priority than the TFC...
The idea of using the heavy bolter for the scouts is good, I was thinking about this myself but I preferred the versatility of the missile launcher - AP- or AP6 of that hellfire shell is not really that appealing to me.
Initially I wanted to go for dual multi-melta land speeders, but again I thought that I would rarely get much more use of that second melta shot than I would get from the missile launcher.

something I forgot: While Kantor and his 5 man sternguard with flamers camp the objectives (in cover - shooting is the only threat because of wall of death and lots of attacks) he makes use of his orbital bombardment - for the simple reason that he can and probably won't have anything better to do.

I think one could see that I am "spamming" missile launchers because I generally like guns with different profiles, that's why I went for the typhoon (and the missile launcher for the scouts). I always like to keep some "flaws" in my list, justified by fluff or feel - in this case the extensive use of missiles (I converted one of the TFC to look a bit like a big 4 barreled missile launcher carried by 2 servitors, the other one will look the same, except on the normal TFC tracks)

thanks for the response!

[infornography]

The reason I recommend the multimelta over the typhoon is that the mutlimelta is AP1 while the typhoon is AP3.

What that translates to is on every successful pen with the multimelta, you will destroy the target outright half the time. With every successful pen with the typhoon, you will destroy the target 1/6th of the time.

So a multimelta with it's one shot is significantly more likely to cause the target to explode than the Typhoon with it's 2 shots.

As far as the drop pods as terrain strategy, just seems wasteful and more likely to benefit your opponent than you unless you are facing Tau. I guess if you don't usually play with a sufficient quantity of terrain, it might be a decent move, but if you do, it just seems like a strange choice.

You say you are fielding Kantor with the flamer Sternguard and are camping them out on an objective? That seems an odd choice and not entirely doable.

The drop pod can only take 10 men. You can't have Kantor ride in the pod with them and you can't split that unit before the pod drops. How is Kantor joining them? Also with the investment of two heavy flamers, I assumed they would be going guns ablazing after the biggest blob of enemy infantry you could find. Seems wasteful to have heavy flamers just camping an objective.

I can't help but notice you have a lot of your tactics and points dedicated to providing you cover saves. Do you play on pretty barren fields? You may want to invest in proper terrain.

[andy089]

the codex says the Drop Pod has a 12 man transport capability!

Also the FAQ says "Can a single Combat squad from a unit that had split into combat squads before deployment but was embarked on the same transport choose to disembark whilst leaving the other combat squad onboard? Yes" - this would indicate to me that I can stick my combat squatted sternguard (together with kantor) in a drop pod, drop them in and have them as 2 separate units, no?

Is a second melta on the land speeder really that good? I will only need to use that melta for things like land raiders and monoliths if the sternguard can't deal with it (and it wasn't destroyed by dangerous terrain by the TFC) - Would I not add some better all-over-usability to the land speeders if I can also shoot those 2 rockets? (I have 2 melta shots anyway, isn't making them 4 a bit...overkill?)

Since I always want to keep my distance with most units, I am trying to get the "map" to look the way I want to, that's why I invest a lot in cover. Do you reckon I should rather go for more rhinos?

[infornography]

Wow, I have somehow misread that as 10 model capacity every time I've looked at it, which has been a lot recently.... Now I feel dumb.


Yes, you can split once it arrives, but you can't split before that point with drop pods. For some inexplicable reason GW decided that drop pods would be the only dedicated transport that was all or nothing. ie you cannot have 5 men out of a 10 man tac squad in a drop pod with an IC while the other 5 foot slog it. You CAN do that with rhinos, razorbacks, and land raiders.

I run multimelta speeders and often that third or fourth shot really counts. Also having that many multimeltas in one unit is GREAT for dealing with Leman Russ Squadrons or other cases where there are groups of durable vehicles.

If I was trying to decide between dropping empty drop pods or running empty rhinos for cover, I'd probably take the rhinos. Even better though is paying the 5 extra points to make them razorbacks. Then they serve a purpose other than just being metal boxes on treads. Also with rhinos or razorbacks you can use them as transports at any point if you needed to. Drop pods, once they drop are just a storm bolter and some cover, and not even particularly good cover since once they blow their sides, they are mostly open and can be fired through. Rhinos/razorbacks would provide better cover, maneuverability, and utility. If you can find the 20 extra points somewhere like say, replacing even one of those typhoons with a multimelta, then you could replace your pods and rhinos with razorbacks adding a significant amount of additional firepower to your list. I still probably wouldn't take transports to serve as just cover, but if that is your plan, making them cover with a decent gun is worth the 5 point investment.

[andy089]

That was really helpful!

but what I wanted to do is drop my full combat squatted sternguard with kantor in with a drop pod and then split them up, one part dealing with vehicles, the other part with infantry.

I would use razorbacks immediately but TFC can't take razorbacks as transports, so I'd be stuck with 2 of them (since I still want to get those sternguard to the front line asap), I am seriously considering taking dual multi-meltas on the land speeders now and then replacing the 2 rhinos of a sternguard and the tacticals with razorbacks, maybe getting rid of the TFC drop pods as well - that should give me some points for well...other stuff ^^
thanks very much!

[andy089]

Okay so after some consideration (and having a look into my 40k closet and the new death from above rules), I decided I need a storm raven in my list. Somehow I managed to come up with the 225 points for the SR with the upgrade I want, so here is the updated list:

HQ: Pedro Kantor

Elite: 10 Sternguard Vets + 2 Heavy Flamers + 3 Combi-Flamers + 5 Combi-Meltas

Elite: 5 Sternguard Vets + 5 Combi-Plasmas + Razorback

Troops: 10 Snipers + Telion + Camo Cloaks

Troops: 5 Snipers + Camo Cloaks + Melta Bombs

Troops: 10-man Tactical Squad + Missile Launcher + Flamer + Melta Bombs + Razorback

Fast Attack: Land Speeder + 2 Multimeltas

Heavy Support: Thunderfire Cannon

Heavy Support: Thunderfire Cannon

Heavy Support: Storm Raven + Lascannon + Typhoon Missile Launcher

Fortification: Imperial Bastion + Quad Gun

[infornography]

So who is riding in the bird?

[0800hell]

I would be completely destroyed by that list with what i play currently seems great

[andy089]

I would have Kantor and the full sternguard ride in it - but then if they assault they shouldn't have heavy flamers I guess (replacing them with flamers); that way I may have enough points left to get all my sergeants melta bombs...maybe I should just go for combiflamers x5? I doubt they get to fire that flamer more often than once....If I can free up enough points to get a weapon upgrade on the razorback(s)...

[infornography]

You can assault with heavy flamers, while heavy is in the name, they are assault weapons. ;-)

[paxmiles]

The non-telion scouts are a waste. Pedro makes sternguard scoring, so that unit isn't needed. Army needs power weapons. Going to lose lots of guys to melee.

As for the SR, I've had much better results with the MM option. Also cheaper.
-Pax

[andy089]

well aren't 8 scoring units better than 7? that 5 man scout is 100 points for a scoring unit with a potential 2+ cover safe - not too bad if you ask me...

And does 1 power weapon per squad really make an awful lot of difference, especially if units are slowed by TFCs and shot to bits before assaulting? And I am trying to stay in terrain so anything assaulting me would have to assault through cover... I thought about adding powerfists but it just didn't seem worth it =/

I will look into that storm raven - issue. I like to shoot from afar rather than close up, and with PotMS I can choose to shoot another unit with that ML - i just like the fact that I can choose between two profiles and take care of some horde armies as well...

[paxmiles]

With SM, if you need 8 Scoring units, you're probably not playing them very well. I find that 30-40 scoring models is about right. Best if they are in 3-4 squads so you have minimal KP potential.

For power weapons, lets say the tactical squad is assaulted by something with a 2+ save. Say two regular terminators. As no ap2 shooting weapons, unlikely to kill either with over watch (assuming you get one). You're going to swing first with 11 attacks, 5.5 hits, 2.75 wounds, and 0.45 actually dead terminators (in other words, they take no damage). Terminators swing 6 times, hit 3, wound 2.5 times, and kill 2.5 Marines. At this point, you lose combat and are either stuck, or likely flee off the board (backfield unit + terminators can't sweep). This likely continues until those 80pts of terminators kill the squad. A single power axe or fist would completely change the outcome.

Although not all armies have terminators, most have units to take care of backfield units. Also remember that some even include ones that land and assault in the same turn (ymgarls, vanguard).

As for the bird, remember that your force is mostly backfield and that machine spirit allows an extra weapon to fire per turn. I typically use that to fire 3 missiles on turn 1, plus the Las and MM. 18-36" move is more than enough to be in range on the turn it arrives from reserves.
-Pax