Warrior brood size question

[damothegreat]

Hey all, I am looking at running a warrior brood armed with deathspitters backed up by a prime, the question is.... What would the ideal brood size be? I am considering around 4-5 warriors to start with.

[Jabberwocky]

5-6 is about right to make the Prime worthwhile with his BS bonus. Any less and he is just soaking wounds for a non-threatening unit.

I should point out however the size of game will really effect this.

[stinckpickle]

Yeah 5-6 is a good number. Id also give them toxin sacs. 5 pts to re-roll wounds is a good deal.

[vecuu]

I don't run Warriors often, but when I do it's a 3man brood with 2 Deathspitters, 1 Barbed Strangler, and Scything Talons.

Relatively cheap. Relatively durable (assuming your opponent is Krak Missling your t6+ MCs), can score, and doesn't have to worry about being in Synapse Range.

The times the BS has pinned a unit has been exciting too

[WestRider]

Brood size depends on what you want the Brood to do and the other upgrades they have. I often run the same Brood as Vecuu (tho with Devourers instead of DeathSpitters), and it's a great backfield Unit.

For a midfield Warrior Brood, 4-5+Prime seems to be about right as far as I can tell. DeathSpitters are usually worthwhile here, and you're going to want some kind of CC upgrade, because they are going to end up in Assaults. I run Rending Claws/Toxin Sacs, just because it's what I put on those Warriors when I built them 5 years and two Editions ago, and it still holds up alright, but twin BoneSwords or going all the way to BoneSword/LashWhip are probably better. I do have BoneSword/LashWhip on my Prime for a bit of extra punch.

The problem I've had sometimes with this Brood is that as you advance, it gets easier for your Opponent to start bringing S8+ Firepower to bear from multiple directions, and the Prime can only cover one angle at a time. Without him soaking Krak/Melta/etc., the brood falls apart pretty fast.

[t⊗theark]

I play just 3 with toxin sacs, scything talons, 2 rending claws and a barbed strangler. Back field synapse to fall back to, deployment zone objective holders, ranged support but still worth it if they get tied up in combat - all for 115 points.

[ScreamPaste]

That would actually be 125 points, unless I did my math wrong. =P

My stance on warriors is the same as it's been since they took away synapse EW. "WHY?"

Against s7 or less they're good, usable units. The second S8 shows up they're a phenomenal waste of points, and it irks me.

If I do use them it's in low point cost games in small numbers for their ability to soak small arms fire. I don't kit them out all too much, because they're really there look scarier than they are. Deathspitters and scything talons for cost effective dakka and decent CC.

That way when it starts raining Krak missiles my feelings are less hurt when they instadie, and, eh, I'll pay 35 points to keep the krak missile wound off a Terv or Zoanthrope.

[t⊗theark]

Nov 8, 2012 6:55:58 GMT ScreamPaste said:

That would actually be 125 points, unless I did my math wrong. =P

Are you swapping devours for rending claws or scything talons for rending claws and devours for scything talons? If you check, rending claw warriors without toxin sacs cost both 30 and 35 points.

[ScreamPaste]

...Wow, I'd never noticed that before. I feel a little dumb.

I guess it helps to show my opinion of having EW taken away from them, hah.

[Goregut]

Nov 8, 2012 1:57:25 GMT vecuu said:

I don't run Warriors often, but when I do it's a 3man brood with 2 Deathspitters, 1 Barbed Strangler, and Scything Talons.

Relatively cheap. Relatively durable (assuming your opponent is Krak Missling your t6+ MCs), can score, and doesn't have to worry about being in Synapse Range.

The times the BS has pinned a unit has been exciting too

I have been thinking about doing this setup as well, combined with a Cluster Spine equipped Mycetic Spore. A troop choice, and back field Synapse that can deep strike on any objective, and shoot 2 Large Blasts at anyting annoying.

With only 3 models, I'm hoping they don't pose threatening enough, as long as my monstrous creatures are still around to draw away firepower.

[jmg202]

ive done little experimenting with warrior brood, had good luck with a brood of 4 with deathspitters sitting in a ruin just holding objectives, they also baby sat my 9 biovores while 2 flyrants advanced and tervigons spawning gaunts but ihave yet to try and use them as any main force.

[stinckpickle]

Nov 8, 2012 1:57:25 GMT vecuu said:

I don't run Warriors often, but when I do it's a 3man brood with 2 Deathspitters, 1 Barbed Strangler, and Scything Talons.

hahaha, you pretty much just wrote the dos equis commercial.

[coredump]

The Prime is an interesting question...

Lets say you have 5 warriors, you can either take a prime, or 3 more warriors. (about anyway)
The Prime will up their shooting/CC hits, but not as much as 3 more warriors will.
The Prime can absorb Krak missiles, but only 3, which is the same number for the 3 warriors you could have taken. (And assuming the Prime is the closest model.)

If you are taking a Prime, and looking for a place to put it, warriors are good. But I don't think I would take it just to buff the warriors.

[WestRider]

It depends on how tooled up your Warriors are. Because their cost escalates faster than the Prime's does, his proportion of the Brood drops for more expensive Warriors. If you're adding an 80 Point Prime to 30 Point Warriors, he costs about three Warriors, and is worth rather less than that. But if you've given everyone BoneSwords, LashWhips, and DeathSpitters, you're now adding a 100 Point Prime to a Brood of 50 Point Warriors, and he only costs 2 Warriors, but can still soak Krak Missiles like 3.

Similarly with the BS boost:
6 Warriors with no upgrades, 180 Points: 18 shots, 9 Hits
3 Warriors+Prime with no upgrades, 170 Points: 12 shots, 8 Hits

6 Warriors with LW/BS & DeathSpitters, 300 Points: 18 shots, 9 Hits
4 Warriors+Prime with LW/BS & DeathSpitters, 300 Points: 15 shots, 10 Hits

For the more expensive Warriors, he does actually provide an improvement in performance compared to spending the same amount of Points on more Warriors, even if it is a minor one. In Assault, I'm pretty sure he breaks even at best, unless you're up against WS5/6 Opponents, in which case he does provide a significant buff. Those are fairly rare, tho.

[Kilmor]

There are generally two squads I run. Either way the prime I run is whip/sword, talons, toxin sacs, adrenal, and if I have the points regen. The prime is there in addition to all other rolls, as a back up MC hunter (had a frustrating game against a trygon in 5th). Lately he has also been helping against Nurgle armies locally.

First is 5-7 warriors with scything talons and deathspitters, most often with a prime. They essentially function as a tervigon, with abour 6 MC wounds ( takes about as many missiles as a terv to kill, extra wounds account for lower Toughness). They press into midfield, put out a decent amount of fire power and can hold their own in combat against most units, especially for clean up duty. The prime not only boosts BS, but is a close combat deterrent, and gives the squad flexibility in what they can handle.

The other squad is a 4 man brood of double sword, devourers, and toxin sacs. With them it depends on what my army lacks, and who I'm playing against. If I don't need them killing things up front, they are a small squad that will sit on the back objective. In cover they can be hard to remove and no one really wants to assault them. If I need them killing things the prime attaches and leads the way, but I often let the warriors take some of the hits, as generally only need one or two to make it to combat. In this squad the prime's real role is to deliver the lashwhip to high priority targets, and allow the warriors to strike first.

I was trying to decide if I should have devourers or talons on the bonesword warriors, and went with devourers, though mathhammer says it is about the same amount of wounds shooting a turn, or extra hits. This way they get to overwatch, or if I decide to put them in a pod, can shoot when they come in.

I find that a squad between 175-250 points is fine, if they fill a roll, since they cost around the same as a competing terv+gaunts.