How to run the tervigon

[adagio]

Hi i just Wanted you guys opinion on how to run the tervigon in This edition:

Setup A: cheap tervigon with catalyst and toxin sacs. This allows him to cast fnp every round and give out toxin for the gants and himself. Support role and objectives sitter.

Setup B: expensive tervigon with 3 biomancy rolls, toxin sacs and crushing claws. This way you arent guaranteed to be able to cast fnp every round. His role is no longer support but a close combat killer.

What do you guys Think is the best way to run the tervigon and why?

[spawnling]

Setup C: Follow Swarmlord. TS + AG + Cat. Trade Dom for Biomancy Roll. Spawn Gants to Protect Flank. If I have extra points I may throw more stuff her way.

[deadeight]

I too would like to hear some more thoughts on this. Particularly crushing claws.

The downside that comes with crushing claws is that you strike at initiative 1, but the tervigon does anyway. So it's 25 points for D3 extra attacks. So with smash that's 3-4 str10 attacks on the charge. Pretty nasty against a vehicle, considering a trygon in the same situation does 4 smash attacks (but it's HoW is at str6 instead of 5).

But then 25 possibly isn't worth it. I think it would be pretty irregular that I actually come against a vehicle with it, and I can't imagine an extra 1-3 str5 attacks is probably worth the 25 points.



I'm probably going to stick with either the 180pt or 195pt (with catalyst) builds.

[kenji10000]

Ive been leaving the crushing claws off lately since i tend to roll up warp speed.

[lordbob]

I would go for the close combat killer option because even though it doesn't then provide the support of fnp (unless it doesn't roll iron arm) you still have a monstrous creature for a troop that can be t7 and above who is good in combat, destroys vehicles and makes more troops, and can even make challenges. I would also put it with adrenal glands so that it can be S6 against infantry it charges and to provide the benefit to nearby gants.

I would keep the crushing claws, but I can see not having them, you can make up for them with warp speed (though you can still have both, you lose the speed but can have up to 6 extra attacks) and if you don't roll warp speed then depending on the powers it does roll, can still be used for combat (with less attacks) or even go back to its original support roll, it's a hugely versatile unit.

[commandersasha]

It has been FAQed that for Smash Attacks you halve the basic, THEN add the D3, plus 1 if charging. That's up to 6 S10 attacks!
With the removal of No Retreat wounds, Tervigons have become a major frontline unit.
Screen them with their own gaunts until they're in charge range, and use the gaunts for clever assault positioning (let the gaunts deal with the powerfist) and soak up the overwatch.
And if you're spawning gaunts, you'd be mad not to take AG and TS; 10 points each potentially buffing dozens of models!

Adr, Tox, and Crush claws are a basic minimum for me now; the only decisions are over how many powers to take(on Biomancy), and whether I can afford Regen.

[lordbob]

Wow that FAQ benefits tervigons quite a bit, they have a minimum of 4 if they have claws and upto 6 as you said, because it also means trygons can have 5 smash hits if they have rage.

There is also the ever popular gant cannon, though I am also wondering, now that tervigons are characters and can snipe with their precision shots whether it might be beneficial to switch from the blast weapon to the multiple shots weapon, also because then they can then take shots at some of the lower armoured flyers and fire overwatch

As for the powers I might not actually buy all 3, it already comes with 1, I would always buy a second, so with the claws puts it at 220 (I don't have my codex on me so I can't recall if one of the powers is cheaper); but I would only buy 1 additional, because, although you have more selection with 3 however it still is only a level 1 psyker, you'd most likely end up using the same power every turn. Another reason you'd want it on the frontlines now, shadow in the warp, we have one of the stronger anti-psychic defenses now that they've nerfed psychic hoods.

[halos]

Both optional powers are the same cost.

I have been using Crushing Claws, TS/AG and 3 powers. It is certainly very effective.
I think 2 powers is gambling a tad, more than once I've rolled up Haemorrage and Leech Life and with only 2 rolls that makes for a less than scary monster.
The Crushing Claws I'm not so sure on, all those extra Smash attacks, and attacks in general (especially with poison), are certainly nice. But it does negate Warp Speed, which is useful in letting you strike before Power Fists. Plus they are quite expensive, perhaps if they were simply +3 attacks it would be a done deal, but at +D3, not so much.

[lordbob]

Well I suppose it depends on what psychic powers you roll up. If I had a choice between Iron Arm and warp speed (if i rolled both), I'd choose Iron Arm, because it helps you outside of combat aswell, but mainly because if you go into combat with either a lot of thunder hammers, powerfists or even just a huge amount of attacks, that extra initiative is not going to help you too much, we know how often we've had our monstrous creatures die to a bolt gun or just get some orks pumelling it to death through weight of attacks. You kill off the lone powerfist but then die because you rolled too many 1s and 2s

Whereas if you have crushing claws, if you roll Iron arm, you get the extra attacks, same as warp speed, plus you get the extra toughness, and if you're T8/9 then that lone powerfist, the whole bunch of thunder hammers, meltas and missiles are going to have a lot of trouble trying to even wound you; and the huge weight of attacks can't even touch you. If you roll warp speed, no matter what initiative you are you will die to all the thunder hammers, and you might kill 1 or 2, but if you have both warp speed and crushing claws, you'll still die but you might take twice as many with you. If you go up against paladins your speed will never help you, but having eternal warrior and extra toughness will help you a lot.

Ofcourse this is all predicated on getting Iron Arm and/or Warp speed, but I think the crushing claws will help with either power, and the randomness of powers needs to be factored in.

If you don't get either Iron Arm or Warp Speed then the crushing claws will help a lot with smash attacks, without which you only get 3, I might not count on that destroying a tank because as soon as you miss 1 attack the tank is still alive. A guaranteed extra 3 attacks would be much better and worth the price, but unfortunately we still play tyranids. Without either of those powers you would still have the extra attacks but then considering your remaining available powers you might lose some wounds but can then regain them with either it will not die or leech life (So much better than the tyranid equivalent); whereas without the crushing claws you are stuck with having a much more supportive tervigon, still useful but not as useful as it could be

[halos]

Most tanks have a reasonable chance of being destroyed with only two hits, or even only one if it's AV10/11.

S10 Ap2 with a re-roll to pen is nothing to sneer at even if you happen to be a Land Raider.

[lordbob]

Absolutely, it's definitely better than the old 2d6, but the AP2 still makes it only as good as the old damage chart, so you have a 1/3 chance of destroying a tank. Like I said, I can definitely see the benefits of not using crushing claws, I just think the they are worth it.

[deadeight]

Nov 2, 2012 12:26:50 GMT lordbob said:

Wow that FAQ benefits tervigons quite a bit, they have a minimum of 4 if they have claws and upto 6 as you said, because it also means trygons can have 5 smash hits if they have rage.

There is also the ever popular gant cannon, though I am also wondering, now that tervigons are characters and can snipe with their precision shots whether it might be beneficial to switch from the blast weapon to the multiple shots weapon, also because then they can then take shots at some of the lower armoured flyers and fire overwatch

As for the powers I might not actually buy all 3, it already comes with 1, I would always buy a second, so with the claws puts it at 220 (I don't have my codex on me so I can't recall if one of the powers is cheaper); but I would only buy 1 additional, because, although you have more selection with 3 however it still is only a level 1 psyker, you'd most likely end up using the same power every turn. Another reason you'd want it on the frontlines now, shadow in the warp, we have one of the stronger anti-psychic defenses now that they've nerfed psychic hoods.

My thought behind this was that the tervigon is BS3, so I feel like the blast weapon is better. 1 in 3 chance of a direct hit so BS doesn't even come into play, and even when it scatters it's only by an average of 4 inches (7-3). But for stinger salvo with BS3 those 4 shots turn into 2 hits, I feel like a template is going to get more than that. I guess it depends what army you're up against as well.

[halos]

Strictly speaking the blast is better, and definantly was in 5th by a league.
In 6th you have to factor in both Overwatch, which the blast cannot do, and the Tervigons status as a character which allows it to precision shot, but again not with the blast.
Personally I still prefer the large blast simply for weight of wounds, but there are a few advntages to the alternative now.

[sunshine]

halos, don't forget with Warpspeed you get an additional d3 attacks. So combined with crushing claws, it would be half attacks plus 2d3 at strength 10, potentially 8 attacks on the charge!

[lordbob]

Yeah the blast might generally get more wounds, but the alternative guns could result in more damaging wounds and since all the places where it is more useful require 6's the BS is irrelevant. I would want to try out my usual two tervigons but one with each gun, I think this might end up a personal call, both useful, unlike 5th.

Sunshine, it's actually a potential 9 smash attacks, 2 base (love that you round up), +1 from the charge and 2d3 from claws and warp speed; gives you a max of 9 and an average of 7 and because of the way smash and rounding works and the number of attacks the tervigon actually has you only lose 1 attack when you smash, so if you have either warp speed or crushing claws or even both, it is very advantageous in most cases to smash just so you're S10 with the new awesomeness of poison. The only time I wouldn't is facing a bunch of T3 targets and you're on the charge since you'd be S6 anyway because of adrenal glands.

I can imagine the face on an ork player, a group of nobs on bikes, oh look at that tervigon, slow, squishy. What's that? He's charging us? He has warp speed and/or crushing claws? He has how many S10 attacks?!