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Post by Geneva on Oct 13, 2012 14:48:23 GMT
I do find it funny, and pitifully sad, that massacres of millions is considered good fictional fun . . . but nekkid bodies?!?! EVIL!!![/i][/u] Although it's not just sex that people treat that way. We can gawk at artwork of soldiers having their hearts blown out their backs and have deep discussions on how to kill fictional beings with superior efficiency but I can't mention that I enjoy marijuana on forums without someone labeling me as lazy, criminal gutter trash. [/quote] Humans are silly. Fine with seeing the insides of our bodies (the parts we really aren't supposed to see unless things have gone seriously wrong) but culturally squeamish about the natural outsides that we enter the world with. I also find it ironic that sex, love and lust is considered more explicit than death, hate and war. Surely the former is less harmful than the latter, right? |
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Post by t⊗theark on Oct 13, 2012 15:28:39 GMT
I would in fact say that lust, love and sex are largely good things. A lot of western culture was influenced by Romantic culture, and so, Catholocism. Remember, the church needed to stop ligiages of cleargy so sex was largely demonized around 1,000 A.D. and 'men of god' vowed to chastity. Other Abrahamic religions have contributed this into the middle east as bedouin tribes held the marriage of women not much higher than the trading of stock, so before hand were desexualized. What we would call 'prudish' are simply cultural leftovers from history given legitimacy through religion which than became apart of social norms and being formalized in common morality of our current zeitgeist. It is not some out of no where paradox of human irrationality.
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Post by wisdomseyes1 on Oct 13, 2012 19:00:15 GMT
I do find it funny, and pitifully sad, that massacres of millions is considered good fictional fun . . . but nekkid bodies?!?! EVIL!!![/i][/u] Although it's not just sex that people treat that way. We can gawk at artwork of soldiers having their hearts blown out their backs and have deep discussions on how to kill fictional beings with superior efficiency but I can't mention that I enjoy marijuana on forums without someone labeling me as lazy, criminal gutter trash. [/quote] Humans are silly. Fine with seeing the insides of our bodies (the parts we really aren't supposed to see unless things have gone seriously wrong) but culturally squeamish about the natural outsides that we enter the world with. I also find it ironic that sex, love and lust is considered more explicit than death, hate and war. Surely the former is less harmful than the latter, right?[/quote] Wasn't always that way. It's not humanity that is silly, just the rules we set in place that cause it to be abnormal to see, say, our private parts. "No one else does it, so its not okay" mentality that we have then established as a rule that it isnt okay. But... i am confused... I am almost certain that people arent okay with seeing their insides. If you saw someone's head fall off, you would likely puke. their still beating heart? Most people, even when the organs (such as a liver) are presented, feel sick./ grossed out to some extent with exception to those who see them all the time (surgeons). Only when its blood (since we see it all the time... and even then there are people who are hemophobic) and organs that look like food (so long as you dont know its human) Violence is just as natural as sex is. Just an attempt to be more dominant than others. We starting banning that as well, to maintain order and collectively work together to become much greater than ourselves. ... ... ... PS: Dafuq did I just walk into 0.o |
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Post by Overread on Oct 13, 2012 19:56:26 GMT
True lets not get lost here and remember that we are not talking about real life experiences, but visual and graphical reproductions of them. I'm quite certain if I walked out of my flat and shot 50 people that most surrounding me would not just keep on with their daily life shopping, only to remark upon the interestingness of the blood splatter patterns (unless they were an abstract photographer possibly).
But yes in the media there is this odd view that sex is somehow "worse" than violence and graphical depiction of violence and war. That said its also interesting that whilst computer games, TV shows and movies need ratings the book industry has never (to my understanding) had any rating system what so ever - barring the top shelf in news agents for "adult" magazines. In fact you can pick up any book on any topic and no matter the content you can read it without society really caring - possible exception would be reading the Karma Sutra when young, but otherwise nobody would really care (certainly not enough to drum up for a ratings system).
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Post by The Tomato on Oct 13, 2012 20:34:59 GMT
Just on a different tangent but related.
Heraldical lions usualy have quite large and vissible testicles.
If someone with a lion emblem was found to be guilty of cowardlyness they were removed from their insignia to signify that they were not real men.
Still, no worries?
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Post by Psychichobo on Oct 13, 2012 22:39:41 GMT
It's weird, but I suppose society's all weird about it because it's not entirely sure how to approach teenagers with the topic, given the extreme hormonal turmoil they all go through. Therefore you shouldn't risk exposing them to it for fear of giving them a negative perception of love and sexuality.
Trouble is, it can very easily go wrong, where you get people growing up with extreme psychological damage and violent or aggressive attitudes towards sex. (Ironically, much of the attempts to 'protect' can often make it worse anyway)
As a result, sticking naughty bits on models is generally frowned upon, and as a result advertisers and the like seem to want to circumvent that with the power of the chainmail bikini, thus destroying feminism in wargames forever. Woo.
Violence and conflict, however, is present in the psyche of even the youngest of kids, and there is a slight predisposition to it anyway in humanity due to us all being animals with needs to survive and whatnot. Conflict is at the heart of many things, and what book or tv show or game doesn't have at least an inkling of it? It does seem to be easier to deal with for people as long as it's removed in some way - placed into that particular sphere of the imagination or the fictitious, or at least the very-far-away.
Video games even help enforce the sense of it being distinct and 'different' - if you get blown up you happily delight in your own silly over-the-top dismemberment, because it's not painful or permanent. If Eric the Space Marine Captain gets flattened by a point-blank Leman Russ shot he's still back in the next match, so it's not a painful or shocking incident, whereas in real life it's strange, alien and traumatic. There is a particular difference in that regard.
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Post by swarm492 on Oct 13, 2012 22:54:16 GMT
Personally i wouldn't want to see any cross breeding of races, that could just destroy the fluff completely. genestealer cults But that's part of the fluff, that's what genestealers do, when i say cross breeding you know what i mean. |
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Post by gigasnail on Oct 14, 2012 0:13:58 GMT
if anyone confuses my upcoming noise marine conversions with love, there's a problem and it's not my models.
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Post by Space is pretty big on Oct 14, 2012 7:01:22 GMT
Fascinating, all fascinating. Still, I wonder if it's just not possible to bring sex or nudity into 40k, without it automatically devolving into pornography. Violence has no middle ground; it's either something mature like Schindler's list, or something entirely immature like warner brothers cartoons. Nothing in 40k is what I'd call mature. It's all a caricature of human history and war. Chainsaw swords, planets exploding, super powers. There is nothing grown up about 40k (which, lets face, is thats why we like it  ). So there probably is just no mixing the mature version of sex, in with the immature version of violence. Thoughts? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2012 7:11:08 GMT
I'm certainly no prude but I would not want any sex in 40k. Definitely not grimdark unless there's a relationship involved haha!
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Post by t⊗theark on Oct 14, 2012 7:35:21 GMT
Well there's spacemarines injecting their chapter's geneseed into teenaged boys...
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Post by wisdomseyes1 on Oct 14, 2012 16:26:57 GMT
But that's part of the fluff, that's what genestealers do, when i say cross breeding you know what i mean. I am actually curious how this would even happen Humans are Xenophobes or have power armor and xeno's killers. Eldar have to much swag Dark Eldar say "yolo" Daemons dont reproduce Orks reproduce by spores Tyranids... do that thing they do .. And then there is tau I am not sure how cross breeding of races would even occur. I am sorry but there is nothing in existence reserved for adults save taxes. What exactly is a "grown up" passtime? Sports? No, pretty sure kids and young adults do all that. Adults watch. Guess watching other people try their hardest and engage is sort of an adult only activity... right? Nope... we even bring our kids to baseball and football games... hmmm. So maybe its not sports. Alcohol is a.. yea no its not adult only. It's "supposed" to be, but it isn't... hmmm Taxes? Yep. But that isn't a passtime... Chess? Well, we have a wargame on a gaming board using tactics and positioning to create an outcome where you win... and was created from actual wartime tactics. Hmmm... but then all that makes it is violent. Fairly sure that isnt reserved to grown ups. I honestly can't think of one "grown up" passtime, can you? And... if you can, what is it and why. I think Aimee Bender (short story author, taking a creative writing course and we watched her lecture on one of her stories. She is a very odd writer, she is the person you go to when you want to have absolutely no idea why something is going on unless you can understand metaphor really well) said it best, and I'll paraphrase since it is on a video. "When i was growing up, I felt this need to be real, to be serious. To take a leap away from the magic and fun as a child. Magic doesn't exist, so for me to be taken serious in my writing, I felt I had to. But I couldn't do that. I could have written about the family at the table, eating dinner at the table and dealing with real problems... but that didn't bode well. I couldn't get into the story I was writing. It was only when there was magic that I could truly show what I wanted to say. It was the stories I wrote with magic that felt the most real" Magic... fiction of any sort really... we think its reserved for children. I don't understand why. Why is fantasy, why is escape from reality such a "childish" thing? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2012 16:40:50 GMT
Whittling wood, caring for 92 cats, reading the newspaper, competing in mustache/beard competitions, clubbing. There's a lot.
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Post by wisdomseyes1 on Oct 14, 2012 16:49:24 GMT
Added more.
Whittling wood
>modeling that isn't 40k is less childish
Caring for 92 cats
... odd choice in number
>crazy cat lady
Reading the newspaper
>Reading fiction is childish
Competing in mustache beard competitions
>trying to be many is the same as being grown up[
> women can't be grown up with this particular... activity (which you arent doing anything by the way... like in order to do this you have to actively not do something)
Clubbibg
> Alcohol and dancing
>I didnt already cover those
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Post by Space is pretty big on Oct 15, 2012 10:10:15 GMT
"What exactly is a "grown up" passtime?"
Sex...
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