Some confusion on rules in 6th Ed.

[seanster3000]

Are the base attacks of a MC AP2 or is the only way to get AP2 by using the Smash ability (if MCs don't hit at AP2 like they did in 5th that is a pretty substantial nerf)?

Does the Swarmlord's Bone Sabers ignore armor like Bone Swords?

With the Venomthrope's Spore Cloud ability is it if I had say a 30 man Termagaunt Brood with one model 6" away from the Venomthrope then that whole squad gets the benifits of Spore Cloud? If so why aren't more people using Venomthropes?

Thats all I have for now...

[rpricew]

- All attacks of the MC are AP2

- Bone Sabres ignore armor

- Yes all of the Gants would get the cover save... can't tell you why others don't use the Venomthropes, but I don't because cover is usually abundant in 6th edition games and I run a more offense based army. Points are better spent on offensive units than defensive units in the list that I'm running. But, thats just me. There is a guy in my LGS that never makes a list without them.

[seanster3000]

Where exactly does it say MC hit with AP2, not doubting you just was wondering in case I have to defend myself in a game, thanks!

[GuardDog78]

It's in the actual description of smash. All attacks are AP2...in addition...you can halve your attacks to make them S10.

[seanster3000]

I just reread the Smash rule, outstanding I love MCs even more now!

[seanster3000]

Another question I had is, how is the overall effectiveness changed for the Tyrannofex (another one of my favorite models) in 6th Ed.? To me he seems very viable in 6th Ed.

This leads me to the option to exchange Stinger Salvo to Cluster Spines. In 5th it seemed like Cluster Spines were the way to go but I am wondering if that is still true in 6th?

[gloomfang]

Funny thing is that Bone Sabers do not ignore armor. However as they can only be wielded by the Swarmlord and he is an MC that means all his attacks are at AP2.

As for cluster vs salvo. I always go salvo so I can make snap shots. That means that I can try to hit FMCs and Flyers as well as shoot overwatch.

[kippawah]

Oct 2, 2012 15:27:28 GMT gloomfang said:

Funny thing is that Bone Sabers do not ignore armor. However as they can only be wielded by the Swarmlord and he is an MC that means all his attacks are at AP2.

As for cluster vs salvo. I always go salvo so I can make snap shots. That means that I can try to hit FMCs and Flyers as well as shoot overwatch.

Essentially, Bonesabres ignore armor. It IS strange that there are no mention of Bonesabres counting as Boneswords for the sake of armor saves...

In 5th, I'm pretty sure I treated them as Boneswords, but maybe i'm forgetting other old rules...

[gloomfang]

Oct 2, 2012 16:19:12 GMT kippawah said:

Essentially, Bonesabres ignore armor. It IS strange that there are no mention of Bonesabres counting as Boneswords for the sake of armor saves...

In 5th, I'm pretty sure I treated them as Boneswords, but maybe i'm forgetting other old rules...

It is the same thing in almost every case. The only diffrence is one is AP2 and the other ignores armor. The only big diffrence is against Mech as Bones Swords are AP-.

[Deleted]

Oct 2, 2012 14:53:50 GMT seanster3000 said:

Another question I had is, how is the overall effectiveness changed for the Tyrannofex (another one of my favorite models) in 6th Ed.? To me he seems very viable in 6th Ed.

Tfex is still overpriced and Rupture Cannon is now a joke, it's chance to pen wreck got cut in half! Only way to go with Tfex is Acid Spray and 250 is a lot to pay for a s6 ap4 flamer.

[GuardDog78]

Yeah...i really want to like the t-fex...but he's just too pricey for what you get. They seriously need to change him to BS 4...and it blows my mind that you can get a 3+ armor save from a weapon that's the size of a Rhino. I mean...come on. The impact alone from something that size should kill someone inside power armour. And the fleshborer hive is an even bigger joke....if they would have made it a BL devourer hive...well then now you're looking fieldable...

[Deleted]

Even if he were BS4 he'd need the RC to be AP2 for +1 damage result for me to consider dropping a quarter K for two shots a turn. Even at BS4, with the current RC stats you have a 1/27 chance per shot to wreck a Land Raider, not a vast improvement over his current 1/36. At BS4 with the RC at ap2 it'd be 2/27 . . . still not great odds. With his 1/4 chance to glance per shot (1/3 if he were bs4), you can't even count on him glancing one to death anytime soon.

TLDR Rupture Cannon is garbage to be avoided at all costs.

[kippawah]

Oct 2, 2012 18:51:54 GMT @60mm said:

Even if he were BS4 he'd need the RC to be AP2 for +1 damage result for me to consider dropping a quarter K for two shots a turn. Even at BS4, with the current RC stats you have a 1/27 chance per shot to wreck a Land Raider, not a vast improvement over his current 1/36. At BS4 with the RC at ap2 it'd be 2/27 . . . still not great odds. With his 1/4 chance to glance per shot (1/3 if he were bs4), you can't even count on him glancing one to death anytime soon.

TLDR Rupture Cannon is garbage to be avoided at all costs.

Have to agree here. Sure a 6W T6 2+ MC is scary to people, that's about where it ends. When you have such versatile units like the Tervigons with Crushing Claws, AG, TS and 3 PsyPowers (Crushitgons, Tervifexes) it's no contest who gets taken. Tyrannofexes are cool models, and having long range, high strength guns, we all thought it would help us with Mech and it didn't.

Just about anyone who's taken them in games realizes just how poorly they perform, for how expensive they are. They just aren't a threat, unless you are taking them against a footslogging army, with Acid spray... even then, hardly worth it's points. Better off taking Pyrovores in a spore for cheaper!

I still hate taking Zoanthropes for ranged guns. Fickle, too many rolls needed to work, can be DtW'd.

F that.

I'll go with the Matrons of Can-Opening, thank you.

Just to go farther out on a rant, I even find Hive Guard woefully ineffective against most mech.

Take a full unit: half your shots miss. Half of those fail to glance/pen. That's a hull point. Every turn. For 150 points, at full strength. And that's on the most common AV we face! Necrons? Good luck with that, they all start (except for flyers) at 13! I find it harder and harder to field multiples of these in any list, when I could field more bodies, or another MC.

Suffice to say, I STILL have problems with Mech at range. Keep in mind my local meta involves Orks, SM, Necrons, BA, IG, Eldar. Ugh.

[halos]

How are half your Hive Guard shots missing every turn? BS4 is getting you 2/3 hits. Unless your being anecdotal?

The fact that Hive Guard ignore Jink/KFF/Smoke etc. and don't require LoS more than makes up for their AP4 I find, plus extra T6 wounds are always nice.

[WestRider]

Oct 2, 2012 16:33:44 GMT gloomfang said:

Oct 2, 2012 16:19:12 GMT kippawah said:

Essentially, Bonesabres ignore armor. It IS strange that there are no mention of Bonesabres counting as Boneswords for the sake of armor saves...

In 5th, I'm pretty sure I treated them as Boneswords, but maybe i'm forgetting other old rules...

It is the same thing in almost every case. The only diffrence is one is AP2 and the other ignores armor. The only big diffrence is against Mech as Bones Swords are AP-.

Even against Vehicles it doesn't matter. The SwarmLord still strikes at AP2 because of Smash.

kippawah: On average, a full Brood of Hive Guard against AV11 does 6 Shots, 4 Hits, 2 2/3 Hull Points, usually with no Cover Save. Works out to a Rhino/Razorback kill per Brood per turn about half the time in my experience.