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Post by IainL on Sept 11, 2012 6:19:03 GMT
Hey everyone! Pretty excited to find a good forum for Tyranids!
I've been playing WHFB now for almost half a year and I think I want to get into playing 40k. Now that there's a new edition out, I figured it'd be a good place to start up.
Before I start talking about anything else, I'd like to just through it out there and say that I know very limited about the playstyle, rules and layout of 40k, and I know even less about the equipment and how things work.
Anyways, I want to start 40k by picking up Tyranids; I find the models spectacular and the painting will be rewarding (I hope).. Other than that, I wanted a different experience from my fantasy army which is Warriors of Chaos - very elite and small army, where as Tyranids is pretty swarm-like. I need some help though. I picked up the codex today and other than not knowing what any of the actual stat lines/rules mean, I wanted to know which units are good and which units aren't.
Are all the HQ choices pretty decent? For troops is it better to go with a couple squads of Warriors of multitudes of Hormagaunts/Termagaunts? What are good Elite choices? What is fast attack, just fast units who aren't as tough; and are there any good ones in the Nid's codex? Also, I'd like to believe that all of the really great looking models avaliable in the Heavy Support section are really good in the game, but i find that's never really the case with anything; I'm sure they're all way overpriced or something and I'll never actually get to field something cool like a Trygon or a Carnifex.
Anyway, thanks for whatever help you can give me guys. Sorry for being all out n00b on this stuff.
On a side note, I was thinking of doing a black/white scheme. I realize that it's not going to represent any of the actual Hive Fleets, but I think it would look really cool with some bright green in there somewhere too.
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Post by free on Sept 11, 2012 7:09:26 GMT
Welcome to the Hive!
I am fairly new myself and started with nids just at the end of 5th Ed. So I was in your situation not that long ago.
Have a look at the army lists, you will get a clear idea of what is most popular. Read here in the forum and you will get a better idea what you like. As soon as you have tried a couple of games you will adjust and end up with something that works.
How you go about starting will depend greatly on your budget. Based on my experience and what has worked for me I would recommend starting out with at least a tervigon and termagaunts as you will always be able to use them in most lists. A unit of Hive Guard is a good start.
I have made sure to get a sizseable brood of everything available so I can adapt in true Tyranid fashion to any opponent. I have noticed I am now hardly using my warriors and genestealers at all anymore. Carnifex only possibly if equiped with 2 T/L Devourers but otherwise most other units are ok. I like Trygons and recommend you to get one for sure. It all depends on which army you are facing. Havent used my Lictors or Deathleaper yet.
Also, go for an easy paint scheme, there will be a lot of little guys ...
Good luck!!
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Post by Princelarming on Sept 11, 2012 7:28:08 GMT
Hey everyone! Pretty excited to find a good forum for Tyranids! I've been playing WHFB now for almost half a year and I think I want to get into playing 40k. Now that there's a new edition out, I figured it'd be a good place to start up. Before I start talking about anything else, I'd like to just through it out there and say that I know very limited about the playstyle, rules and layout of 40k, and I know even less about the equipment and how things work. That's where you start - pick up a rulebook - borrow, lend, buy or steal - and read the rules... It's an easy 100 pages, and gets you in a position to start thinking your own thoughts on what is good and what isn't... The advice you get on online forums is good, but it can never substitute actual thinking  Anyways, I want to start 40k by picking up Tyranids; I find the models spectacular and the painting will be rewarding (I hope).. Other than that, I wanted a different experience from my fantasy army which is Warriors of Chaos - very elite and small army, where as Tyranids is pretty swarm-like. The swarmy feel got a bit hurt, going into the last edition codex, and even more so, with the 6th edition rules... I'd classify the Tyranids as a Psychic supported semi-Elite army now... You usually have 3+ psykers, and the MC's (that's "Monstrous Creatures") dominate the game - mostly the Tervigon, but I'll come back to that later... I need some help though. I picked up the codex today and other than not knowing what any of the actual stat lines/rules mean, I wanted to know which units are good and which units aren't. Since the codex has about 30 choices, that is a long list: But let's try HQ:Tyrant - Good (some say better w. Wings) Swarmlord - ok, but expensive Tervigon - Brilliant, but better as troops Prime - ok, got hit a bit in the recent FAQ Parasite - dunno... never saw him used... Elites:Lictors - below average Hive Guards - good! Zoanthropes - OK Deathleaper - OK Doom of Malantai - OK Venomthrope - below OK Ymgarl Genestealers - OK Pyrovores - (please do not swear)... Possibly the worst unit in the entire game! Troops:Warriors - took a hit - below average Termagants - OK - gives access to Troop Tervigons - Brilliant! Hormagaunts - below average - too expensive (tooled up) Genestealers - took a hit - OK Rippers - bad Fast Attack:Shrikes - below average Raveners - OK Gargoyles - Good! Sky-slasher - Bad Spore Mine - Bad... Harpy - could be OK as support... Heavy Support:Carnifex - OK Old ONe Eye - bad Biovore - ok? Trygon - ok, but prime could be worth it now... Mawloc - ok? Tyrannofex - below average - took a hit, and very expensive... (the list above are my own opinions, and reflect my playing style... others could and would disagree on several verdicts...) Are all the HQ choices pretty decent? For troops is it better to go with a couple squads of Warriors of multitudes of Hormagaunts/Termagaunts? What are good Elite choices? What is fast attack, just fast units who aren't as tough; and are there any good ones in the Nid's codex? Also, I'd like to believe that all of the really great looking models avaliable in the Heavy Support section are really good in the game, but i find that's never really the case with anything; I'm sure they're all way overpriced or something and I'll never actually get to field something cool like a Trygon or a Carnifex. In rapid succession: maybe, neither, Hive Guards, yes and yes, and you're close to being right... and an explanation: The HQ's - Swarmy and Parasite do not get a lot of playing time... No-one knows for sure if the're really that good... Troops: Go for Termagants (few and cheap) and buy Tervigons! They are the best force multiplier in the army, and give great utility in the form of Psychic Powers, chargiong spawned Gaunts and MC status to wreck face (and everything else, more or less...) Elites: Hive Guards are the best choice in Elites, because they're propably one of the best Anti-tank units in the game... Other options are ok (except the Pyrovore, which is awful!), but they never really compare to HG... Fast Attack: Most aren't that tough, but the speed or price offsets this in most cases. Gargoyles, taken en masse, are one of the better options in the 'dex. Heavy Support: The models are cool, and the prices are high! But since this is one of the few places outside the Elites section where you can get some anti-tank guns, you've got to consider going here for support... Dakkafexes (Carnifexes with two sets of Twin-linked Devourers with Brainleech Worms)are one of my favourites... On a side note, I was thinking of doing a black/white scheme. I realize that it's not going to represent any of the actual Hive Fleets, but I think it would look really cool with some bright green in there somewhere too. Sounds like a nice scheme - have you got a test model, or anything yet?? |
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Post by infornography on Sept 11, 2012 9:02:59 GMT
I'm going to have to differ on some of those opinions.
Trygons (both the prime and non prime varieties) are amazing. Totally worth their points and can wreck vehicles and heavy infantry very well.
Carnifexes are poor for their points. They can't really utilize smash efficiently due to their already very high strength and you pay for it dearly.
Mawloc is not worth it either. They get 2 or 3 awesome attacks over the course of an entire game. While awesome, that attack is not awesome enough to warrant their points for only 2 or 3 shots of it.
Biovores are quite good. Not a must have, but a really solid performer.
Winged Tyrant is almost a must have. It is our ONLY anti air unit. The only one. Also a solid performer otherwise, best if used mostly in glide mode except for when closing distances and shooting down flyers.
Ymgarls are one of like 5 units in the game left that can assault the turn they come on board. And they are quite effective at doing so. They are very good at what they do, but they die quickly when not in close combat.
Genestealers took a HUGE hit. They moved from being one of our best units to being notably below par and it is because they have to be able to assault the turn they come in or they will die quickly to firepower. They are still scary in close combat but they never get there anymore. Very sad. One use for this unit is as an escort for a broodlord which is still an OK choice, but nothing amazing.
Swarmlord is one of the most effective deathstar killers in the game. He is also our strongest psyker. Escort him with tyrant guard and he will either soak a ton of high powered fire from your enemy before he goes down or he will annihilate your enemy's most valuable unit(s) singlehandedly. Seriously, he is that good.
If you are wanting to go swarm hormagaunts, termagants, and gargoyles are all viable options. Mixing them together is probably the way to go, but supporting them with tervigons, a tyrant, and a trygon is a good way to go.
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Post by IainL on Sept 11, 2012 16:42:09 GMT
First of all thanks for some advice you guys, it's really appreciated. So, so far I've gathered that Tyranids sound pretty good in this edition, which is encouraging! I went and picked up the codex. As for HQ's I have lots of choices, but it seems that the general consensus is that a winged Hive Tyrant is the way to go? If he is winged, would you still take the Hive Guard? The Swarmlord is one of those guys who is worth a ton of points but is absolutely worth it when you take him (in bigger games I'm assuming)? Then there's the tervigon, which also comes highly reccmended. Is it possible to take more than 1 HQ? So that I could have a Tyrant and then still utilize the Tervigon's spawning? As for elites, I still don't really know what to take, one of you mentioned Hive Guard in this slot, I thought they were part of your HQ choice when you chose Hive Tyrant. Zoanthropes sound really cool for killing heavy vehicles'with warp lance. So does Doom of Malan'tai, his life absorb thing sounds awesome, he could be all the way up to 10 wounds! Troops, most people have recommended termagants, which is kind meh because hormagaunts have cooler models but that's okay. Can't you take tervigons in troop choices somehow as well, or am I making that up? What are genestealers good for; they worth taking? Fast attack, gargoyles are the best choice? Flying close combat dive bombers? Heavy Support, I am glad to hear that I'll be able to play a sick model like the Trygon, are they actually good? Some yes yes, some say not so much. What makes them worth it? And the Carnifex, only good when built super shooty? More questions, I know  but I'm sort of seeing the kind of things I like. Nidzilla sounds cool, but so does a couple MC with lots of little bugs. Also, Prince, I don't have any test models of the scheme, or any models of Tyranids at all whatsoever. I don't even know what I'll buy first. Battle force box set; is it worth it? |
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Post by kippawah on Sept 11, 2012 17:19:35 GMT
In my (limited) experience...
Swarmlord is badass. Has 4 Psychic powers at his disposal, but has no guns, so he can cast 2 charge 1's or 1 charge 2 power a turn!
Hive Tyrant with Wings and Twin-linked Brainleech Worm Devourers (or perhaps 2 sets, trading in his standard Bonesword and Lashwhip) is literally our only way to reliably deal with enemy Fliers. With the new FAQ, they can choose to have Skyfire, which allows them to shoot at normal BS, when targeting fliers. This is an improvement.
Hive Guard are great in that they don't need LOS, while in Synapse range, have S8, AP4, Ass2 with a BS4. Our most reliable shooting units available. Can instant death T4, and even glance the toughest front AV value in the game. A solid choice. Even better when used in conjunction with a walking Tyrant that grants them rerolls on 1's to hit AND to wound. Deadly combination.
Doom of Malantai is used as a fire magnet, most often than not. If he can manage to soak up wounds the turn he comes out, he becomes top target priority. Your opponent can't have him just walking around sucking the brains out of his scoring units! His only issue is that once you fail his 3++ against S8+, he dies, regardless of wound count. Sometimes he works well, other times, he doesn't.
Ymgarl Genestealers are now our only unit in the Codex that can assault out of reserve. The beauty with these guys is that you get to pick the piece of terrain they come out of AFTER OBJECTIVES ARE PLACED AND YOUR OPPONENT HAS DEPLOYED!!! They a above average 'stealers that can +1 to S, T or A each assault phase. In my opinion, these guys are THE Genestealers, now.
Note: One of the issues with the Tyranid Codex, is that you have the choice of soo many great utility/synergy units in the Elite slot, but are only able to choose 3, unless you play at 2000pts. So, it's normally a deciding factor of the battle, what Elites you've brought to bear.
Tervigons I consider Troops because that's they only way I take them! A scoring MC that has 3 powers available to them, can be kitted out to be a devastating CC beast? OH! It also spits out additional base troop units?! AND IT CAN BUFF THEM WITH IT'S OWN BIOMORPHS?! Yea, you get my drift.
A unit of Termigants with Devourers in a Mycetic Spore( Drop Pod) can be a devastating volume of fire that is capable of glancing rear armor, or stacking armor saves on your opponents elite infantry units. That's about as special as they get. Take a unit of these, and you can take Tervigon as a Troop choice.
Genestealers are really only used as small commando squads with a Broodlord in them. Look around this forum and you'll find alot of talk about their usefulness. These guys just aren't fast enough to survive getting into combat anymore, unless you've got another unit screening them or soaking overwatch fire.
Hormagaunt s can potentially be quite deadly with their volume of CC attacks, if left outside of synapse range. With Rage, they will get 4 attacks per model, on the initial turn of the assault. These guys are even softer targets than the genestealers, so if you plan on running across the board with them, plan on helping them out with something like FNP or support from a unit of Venomthropes (elite slot, cover save granting infantry unit).
Ripper Swarms can actually do quite a bit of damage, and soak some fire. These are good for screen units, bubble wrapping a deathstar, or being the initial charger to be backed up by another CC unit. Without synapse though, they start to tear themselves apart.
I really have no experience with Fast Attack units like Raveners or gargoyles, but i've been thinking alot about incorporating them into my armies...
Trygons/Trygon Primes are our best CC MC. 2 sets of scything talons allows you to reroll all misses in CC. Give them Toxin Sacs and they wound infantry on 2's and you reroll 1's. Base 6 attacks, +1 on the charge, +1 for Rage if it's not a Prime and out of synapse makes it a deadly CC unit able to take on just about anything. As far as taking on Vehicles, utilizing their smash ability, you are usually able to blow up something tough on the first try.
Carnifexes are used as mobile gatling platforms. Dakkafexen can glance most light/medium tanks, fliers, and decimate infantry by volume of twinlinked shots, alone. That's 2 Twin-linked brainleech Worm Devourers, for 12 TL S6 shots per model. Drop one of these guys in a pod and watch the flesh fly!
Biovores are actually a cheap way to support your front line, from the back, with dropping pinning tests and S4 AP4 pie plates on your opponent's troops. If they don't explode, they roam around until they get close enough to explode.
That's about all I can reasonably offer.
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Post by IainL on Sept 11, 2012 20:44:48 GMT
Yet again, really helpful. Maybe I'll look through the dex again and post up a list for evaluation . I'm psyched that I'm going to be able to field some of the cooler MC units! |
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Post by Raven on Sept 12, 2012 0:45:56 GMT
Since no one has really talked about Gargoyles I think I will. They are, in my opinion, the best fast attack option. They're basically Termagants but you pay an extra point to make them jump infantry, auto wound on to-hit rolls of 6 in combat, and make them capable of giving cover saves to pretty much any unit in your army. Personally, I take a big unit of twenty of them and use them to screen my army during the first turn or two as I move up the board. If you can get close enough to a unit without using your wings in the movement phase you can use Hammer of Wrath in the assault phase and do some serious damage. When playing The Scouring you have a very fast scoring unit to go off and capture difficult to reach objectives.
As far as other fast attack goes, Shrikes and Raveners are very fast and can hit quite hard (especially when upgraded with rending claws/Boneswords) but unless your opponent doesn't realise that they're getting strength 8 templates dropped on them and dying faster than the American education system. Harpies are cheaper Flying Monstrous Creatures than Hive Tyrants, but they have lower strength (so they can't vector strike AV 12 vehicles) and toughness (allowing them to be instakilled by strength 10), no psychic powers or synapse, and no anti flyer shooting aside from Stinger Salvo which is only strength 4. Harpies can do a fair bit of damage to infantry with their blast weapons, but I wouldn't take them unless your list calls for them.
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Post by IainL on Sept 12, 2012 0:59:20 GMT
Thanks, I now have a pretty good idea of every slot in the book! I like the gargoyle models too, so maybe I'll incorporate some of them!
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Post by aihtin on Sept 12, 2012 4:28:42 GMT
I basically hold a full codex worth of models at my disposal just so I know I have what I may need to face a particular player or army. The best thing to do is start with something you like the look of and can afford around what you have found out here. As you play those models you will be able to learn how to play the game and decide if what you got works most of the time or if you need to try some other things. The biggest downside is that several models still do not actually exist but it can be very fun to make your own conversions, and all of the different kits provide plenty of fodder for just that. Only drawback there though is finishing or almost finishing a conversion right as GW comes out with a model for it and now yours breaks a few rules or just looks like (please do not swear) when compared to a pro model.
I am sure you will be able to make a good army for yourself and have lots of fun for years to come; and again welcome to the hive.
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Post by IainL on Sept 12, 2012 5:09:11 GMT
I guess maybe I'll start with a couple boxes of termigants, a Tyrant and maybe a Trygon.
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Post by free on Sept 12, 2012 9:56:33 GMT
I guess maybe I'll start with a couple boxes of termigants, a Tyrant and maybe a Trygon. Throw in a tervigon with Crushing claws and 2-3 Hive guard and you are good to go! ... and then some Ymgarl Genestealers.... and then another Tervigon... some gargoyles... another tervigon .... some zoans... more termagants... a few hormagaunts..... another Tyrant maybe.... and you can keep going like that for quite a while. Its addictive . I accumulated 4500 pts in 6 months... like that. |
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Post by infornography on Sept 12, 2012 11:11:15 GMT
Absolutely. I'm at the point now where I am rounding out my army to include things I'll probably never field but conceivably might some day.
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Post by Psychichobo on Sept 12, 2012 19:16:46 GMT
Also, just for the record, Shrieks are amazing I find. That's the thing with Nids, very differing opinions. Best thing to do is to write up your own list and see what people think of it.
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Post by IainL on Sept 12, 2012 19:33:24 GMT
I will be writing up my own list, now that I know what all of the units do and their capabilities, then I'll post it up on here!
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but I'm sort of seeing the kind of things I like. Nidzilla sounds cool, but so does a couple MC with lots of little bugs. 
