Trygon Vs. Mawloc

[bloodborne]

So, something that occured to me, is that it seems no one in my LGS has ever faced a trygon. Apparently the other nid players only field Mawlocs and Tervigons (my playstyle was comepletely alien(hur hur) to them) for their MCs possibly a ground tyrant too, not too sure.

Anyway, why would you want to take a Mawloc over a trygon, it seems to me as just a waste of points. Even if you elect to use it's special rules, that means it's coming up under a unit(maybe) a total of 3 times, that is assuming your opponent NEVER fires at it, and that it comes in on the second turn.

That is opposed to a Trygon, that can become a synapse creature, has a ranged(if negligible for it's effect) attack, and it is actually useful in CC....

Is there really some grand secret to mawlocs(aside from having a neat looking mouth) that I am missing here?

[Jabberwocky]

Being slightly cheaper, I guess they let you reach that 'critical mass' of MCs a little easier, with just too many to bring down.

The special attack can work but you really need to use other units in tandem to block enemies in. You also need worthwhile targets to justify the massive investments.

[bloodborne]

understandable... just confusing to me, especially considering the usual cap-off is 1500 points

[Deleted]

You'd want a Mawloc if you want to use TfTD, that is all.

[aihtin]

1500pts you play small games at my GW the average game size is 2k and most go higher.

Ok I made my Trygon/Mawloc using all of the bits so I could call it any of the three. I like having a Trygon or even Prime move around the field shooting all those shots then being able to do something half way decent in CC but what I do when I use my Mawloc is a little tricky.

So to get around the reserve rules and hoping you come in on turn two you place the model on the table turn one, use its movement to burrow, and then on turn two it comes up automatically. Now that is the first trick just to use it normally and avoid reserve rolls.
The second thing you want to do is surround your would be targets throughout the game and group them up so you have a larger target for the Mawloc to hit. Now because its only every other turn that you would be able to use TftD I would limit it to two uses. So on turn 4 after it comes back up simply use it in CC turn five and six and so on if the game continues.

With all that said however I dont really care for either of them in a game, they move slow, are not good at shooting (just have a lot of shots but I can do that with gaunts), not that great in CC (can use fexes or gaunts again), and their special abilities like TftD can be used only so many times. I perfer using fexes and biovores for my heavy slots.

[bloodborne]

even though it isn't something that you can use regularly? Sorry, I'm just not understanding why you would want something you cannot reliably use every turn, especially something that is so fragile...

[aihtin]

Ya that's why my Trygon/Mawloc sits in the case almost every time I play unless its just that big of a game or I just want to goof around. You can use TftD reliably but only every other turn and only if you start it on the table turn one and burrow it to get around having to roll it in, but if it just returns it to reserves now than NEVER us a Mawloc ever just use a Trygon if you must but there are better heavies we can take.

[coredump]

The only case I have heard for the Mawloc (that I found at all reasonable) was the list that went 'all in', they took 3 mawlocs, and a bunch of lictors/deathleaper models. the idea was to be able to 'target' those mawlocs as then came back in.

[swarmy]

People keep talking about it's killing potential and it's point cost. Look at it this way: you can time it coming up as line-breaker fairly reliably and with a little luck or lictors contest or wipe clean far away objectives you have no chance of making it to on foot. Furthermore, you have complete control over what turn it dives and resurfaces. It's a T6 W6 diversion more than anything and ever so slightly cheaper to represent it. I use one pretty regularly and it took some time to realize its role isn't to make up his points in killing it's to force heavy weapons off of more critical units by saying "Pour at least some shots into this or deal with this when it goes to feed in your yard."

Comparing the two is like comparing the killing potential of a frag grenade in real life versus a couple teargas canisters. The purposes are not the same.

[wisdomseyes1]

170 points for a model with no close combat skills, no shooting, whose sole purpose is to go into reserves and pop out for a s6 ap2 large blast BS0. I'm sorry, I mis spoke. 2, if your lucky, 3 large blasts. The fact it's a MC means nothing to how useful it is... It's sill absolute garbage at everything you paid for.

[innocent]

In 6th, I find that the Mawloc has some added potential:
- The ability to enter/come back on the field exactly when you want it to makes it an ideal Linebreaker.
- Scoring in Big Guns Never Tire (granted, same thing for the Trygon).
- Smash Attack only sacrifices one attack, so you're looking at 2 smashes for the Mawloc vs 3 for the Trygon. Still not great without re-rolls, but an improvement from 5th.
- One of our only AP2 "weapon". Paladins and GK Termies are still common and a total pain to deal with. You'd still need to score a Hit though. Combos very nicely with Enfeeble.
- Can attack Flyers, although this is a contentious point, so discuss beforehand or don't do it to nice players

[swarmy]

Aug 13, 2012 2:10:17 GMT wisdomseyes1 said:

170 points for a model with no close combat skills, no shooting, whose sole purpose is to go into reserves and pop out for a s6 ap2 large blast BS0. I'm sorry, I mis spoke. 2, if your lucky, 3 large blasts. The fact it's a MC means nothing to how useful it is... It's sill absolute garbage at everything you paid for.

Yes, if it were a side by side comparison of close combat prowess/shooting versus luck blast templates and just diverting attention. One requires the aid of lictors/deathleaper and functions entirely different than barreling up the field and assaulting asap.

[wisdomseyes1]

Well from what I read in the discussion on fliers, it was a grey point made that said "Templates, blasts, and large blast weapons can not hit fliers" (page 81) and while you may be able to argue that it isn't a weapon, you can argue that it functions exactly as a blast weapon in every way.

Also, even if it could... It's a singe s6 hit. Granted its vs rear armor and it's ap2, but it's not worth 170 points to hit 1 flier using a bs0 blast... Maybe... 2 times in a game...

[Deleted]

It has uses but the fact that it only hits 1/3 times and can only be used twice is the limiting factor. When it works it can be devastating though. Erase groups of Terminators, gooble IG command squads, etc.

[bloodborne]

see, and that's exactly what I am getting at though, it seems to me that for it's points, you lose a vast amount of potential using a Mawloc over a Trygon in almost every situation. Not counting that as far as I can tell, the deep strike for it still calls for you to roll for scatter, potentially allowing it for you to do absolutely nothing for one or more of those turns it comes up. So even then, TfTD seems more a hinderance than a boon.

I'm just not seeing the practicality of taking a Mawloc over a Trygon...