Trygon Vs. Mawloc

[coredump]

Aug 13, 2012 2:05:25 GMT swarmy said:

It's a T6 W6 diversion more than anything and ever so slightly cheaper to represent it. I use one pretty regularly and it took some time to realize its role isn't to make up his points in killing it's to force heavy weapons off of more critical units by saying "Pour at least some shots into this or deal with this when it goes to feed in your yard." .

But a Trygon will also do all of that *and* is faster and a bigger threat.

Aug 13, 2012 2:33:23 GMT innocent said:

- Scoring in Big Guns Never Tire (granted, same thing for the Trygon).
- Smash Attack only sacrifices one attack, so you're looking at 2 smashes for the Mawloc vs 3 for the Trygon. Still not great without re-rolls, but an improvement from 5th.
- One of our only AP2 "weapon". Paladins and GK Termies are still common and a total pain to deal with. You'd still need to score a Hit though. Combos very nicely with Enfeeble.

And which of these provide a reason to take it over a Trygon?

Aug 13, 2012 2:55:53 GMT swarmy said:

Yes, if it were a side by side comparison of close combat prowess/shooting versus luck blast templates and just diverting attention. One requires the aid of lictors/deathleaper and functions entirely different than barreling up the field and assaulting asap.

So now you need to add another 65-140 pts to make it useful??

And lets look at that. Assuming you burrow on turn 1, then you *can't* use the Lictor when the Mawloc returns on turn 2. Which means the lictor has to come in turn 2-3, survive 1-2 turns, and still be within 6" of a useful target... and then on turn 4 this 'combo' might work.



Sure, surrounding enemy units might lead to them getting destroyed, (iff you can get them completely surrounded...) But it also means that if the Mawloc scatters... your own units are likely to die from TftD.

[innocent]

Well, the comments on Smash means the effectiveness difference between the Mawloc and the Trygon is lessened in 6th.
In the second point, I'm referring to the template. Large blast AP2 templates are probably the only good way to deal with GK Terminators and Paladins, and some horribly cheesy Necron close combat units. The Mawloc is the only one we've got.

(EDIT: I forgot the Doom, but he competes with Hive Guards).

Don't get me wrong, I still think he's far from perfect, but if your meta fields a lot of these Deathstar units, with the new rules he could be a better choice than the Trygon. What will your Trygon do against Psychotrope Grenade equipped Terminators/Paladins or Midnshackle Scarabs? He will die just as fast as the Mawloc.

[Deleted]

No one is disputing the fact that Trygons are a better choice on average for most applications. Mawlocs definitely have uses and is currently more of a unit you have to like to run, like PoM. I personally think they are fun because opponents have no defenses from TfTD and they don't know where it will strike so you can gain a tactical advantage if you play them right. Trygons do more damage on average but they can't strike anywhere, anytime and can't go back into reserves to leave your opponent worrying. That is an advantage in itself, you will find enemies less likely to make dashes across open ground for objectives and end up sticking to cover when a Mawloc could gobble them up next turn. I do think they are over costed by maybe 20 points but still useable.

Also, Mawlocs are technically faster as they can cover an infinite distance in two turns.

[Lanesend]

Yeah, but it's a thing of preference.

Innocent has some good points on its use. And you can build a viable list around them.
Hive Guard are also more preffered than Zoans. Still there are people using Zoans. Tefrvigons are considered by some as a must, yet there are people who will never use them.
I always use at least one brood of warriors in my lists, while some considerer them a waste of points and paint.

The Mawloc has it's place.
You just have to build a list around them to use them with succes, IMO.

[eldar88]

In 1k pts i always take both, with the change (slight) to poisoned attacks now a trygon with toxin sacs is rerolling to hit and wound vs 99.9% of stuff especially with AG on the charge. Mawlocs are resillient as hell with regen, (they regen prior to burrowing, then again, prior to surfacing,) nothing ur opponent can do about it, other than killing in one turn, which is no easy feat in 1k pts especially with a Tyrant, Trygon Prime AND Tervigon nearby and some gaunts for good measure. (at my local store it tends to be 750-1500 pts generally, and the odd occasion 2k.....if ur lucky)

[gilgashi]

I like using the Mawloc as distraction. Yeah, it can be a pretty expensive distraction but also a very effective one. Sucky at CC or not, there is a MC in your ranks, sir. Also, you ever seen a building full of troops explode from a TFTD hit? The look on the player's face is spectacular.

[bloodborne]

on that though, somewhere I remember reading a CoD rule that allowed the trygon to be able to attack buildings whilst still underground, forgot the exact wording on it, but if someone knows of the rule and can quote it, that would be helpful...

[swarmy]

Aug 13, 2012 6:15:46 GMT coredump said:

Aug 13, 2012 2:05:25 GMT swarmy said:

It's a T6 W6 diversion more than anything and ever so slightly cheaper to represent it. I use one pretty regularly and it took some time to realize its role isn't to make up his points in killing it's to force heavy weapons off of more critical units by saying "Pour at least some shots into this or deal with this when it goes to feed in your yard." .

But a Trygon will also do all of that *and* is faster and a bigger threat.


And which of these provide a reason to take it over a Trygon?

Aug 13, 2012 2:55:53 GMT swarmy said:

Yes, if it were a side by side comparison of close combat prowess/shooting versus luck blast templates and just diverting attention. One requires the aid of lictors/deathleaper and functions entirely different than barreling up the field and assaulting asap.

So now you need to add another 65-140 pts to make it useful??

And lets look at that. Assuming you burrow on turn 1, then you *can't* use the Lictor when the Mawloc returns on turn 2. Which means the lictor has to come in turn 2-3, survive 1-2 turns, and still be within 6" of a useful target... and then on turn 4 this 'combo' might work.



Sure, surrounding enemy units might lead to them getting destroyed, (iff you can get them completely surrounded...) But it also means that if the Mawloc scatters... your own units are likely to die from TftD.

Depending on the unit size, entrenched space wolf missiles and heavy weapons teams of the like in area terrain have had trouble dealing with even just 2 lictors gone to ground in my experience (5+ area, 4+ stealth, 2+ gone to ground in area terrain). I've had very little trouble pulling that off in the games I've been running that combo lately. Sometimes you can come in with lictors on the other side of a wall from things on foot 6" away. It happens. 2 lictors can deal with with smaller units on foot within area terrain on their own more often than not. So at the end of the day it's a 300 point 2 prong attack where either half of it can do something to force a response from the opponent *anywhere* on the board. I still don't see the problem with it coming in later if the rest of the army has had a few turns to get in position.

[Psychichobo]

He's got a lot of entertainment value, and the ability to smack up backfield units is always nice. I use a lot of Ymgarls so I'm used to disruption tactics, and I do find he tends to block LOS nicely too. He's not perfect, but he's not rubbish.

[eldar88]

I have to admit that especially with marine units, if TFTD hits certain targets i.e. termys/ sanguinary guard it can eliminate a good 200pt unit without the unit being able to do anything about it, and the look on ur opponents face when u attempt to deep strike onto a normally impossible location (on top of a unit) only to realise that a) a mawloc can and b) its lethal. that and having an MC(s) in their back field is more than a bit distracting.