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Post by drummerboy on Jul 26, 2012 16:57:07 GMT
In 6th edition I feel like every list I build ends up following the same form. I am just getting back into the hobby and I don't have a lot of recent experience, but I still feel like we only have a couple of decent builds.
What I would like to know is how people here incorporate the more unique units into the list (no not the pyrovore...lol). Units like lictors (or just the death leaper), hormogaunts, biovores (or even the tyrannofex) the other HQ choices, etc.
If anyone has any decent 6th edition lists that aren't so normal (not: 6 HG, 3 zoans, x2 tervis w/10 man gaunt squads,flyrant) and would like to share them and their tactics used I would really appreciate it. I don't suppose they have to be play-tested, but it wouldn't hurt. Even if you just have good "unit roles" in 6e that might be able to help with my "list writer's block". I have a ton of nd stuff and it just sucks not getting ot use it all anymore.
Thanks in Advance...
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Post by Jabberwocky on Jul 26, 2012 17:03:03 GMT
Unless your competing in tournaments for money, just use what you like.
If you are still getting back into the hobby, learning the rules through play is more important than winning.
That said, I tend to start with my HQ, add another unit that I enjoy using, then theme troops around them
If I have points left I'll add some stronger options such as elites, then flesh out more troops.
I recently wrote a 750-2250 escalation list with 250 point intervals that I'm quite happy with and am going to try and paint up the models as per the list so it's not so daunting.
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Post by roxor08 on Jul 26, 2012 17:19:52 GMT
Jabberwocky has a good point. Since this is ultimately a hobby, you should allow yourself to try everything out.
I would suggest trying to build several lists. I have lists that are themed and it allows you to try out those more unique units.
For instance:
All flying models:
Use a Flyrant, Parasite of Mortex, 2 units of gargoyles, Shrikes, and (not really flying, but fast enough to keep up-Hormagaunts)
For Sneak attack list:
Ymargl genestealers, 2 squads of 3 lictors, Genestealers, Tyrant with HC, and a Tervigon
For snake list:
3 Trygons, 2 squads of 5 raveners, Tervigon
For ranged list:
3x3 biovores, 3 Harpies, a Flyrant, and Devilgaunts in a spore
For wall of death:
2 squads of 2 Dakkafexs, 2 tyranid primes, and 2 Tervigons, 2x2 Zoans.
Just a few suggestions...add or subtract as you'd like!
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Post by wisdomseyes1 on Jul 26, 2012 17:48:40 GMT
I can't say I have stopped using tervigans, but I haven't jumped the flyrant band waggon quite yet. She is still expensive, and she is still weak to gunfire. She is also still one of the scarier models but I am not impressed with her yet. Tyranid primes have always been better than tyrants, and being an THE IC in out codex (Parasite?) it has only gotten more value.
I did stop using hive guard as much. I mean, I still use them, but 2 units of 2 at 1750 and that is all my elites (as of my last game, my list is being edited today, I feel that is a good number. I just don't like any of our other elite units.)
I started using fexen and I am impressed with them this edition so far. I have yet to use their new wound allocation, they seem much more fun, and I live devourers right now ^_^
I think in your "not to takes" your assuming vehicles won't die otherwise. I'm my games so far, I have faced landraiders and my opponent cried because of how easy they have been to take out... Once I took them out with hive guard because they had nothing else to shoot at (of course the landraider had taken damage already, but still)
I'm supposed your "not to take" actually had zoanthrope.. If not zoanthropes and hive guard, then what? Yealers became popular, but I think that is a reaction solely to how genestealers outflank became (please do not swear), and won't last long. I am also shocked trygons weren't listed. Gargoyles weren't listed.
My most reccent list I used I realized had holes, so it will be edited:
1750
X2 tyrand prime
Lw/bs
Death spitter
Regen
X2 2 hive guard
X2 14 devil gants
X2 tervigan
Crushing claws, 3 powers, TS (biomancy) (was just testing why so many people had been taking this)
X2 carnifexen
Adrenal glands
devourers
(2 units, my mistake)
Trygon
==1750
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Post by coredump on Jul 26, 2012 17:52:07 GMT
Units I think should work pretty well, or at least worth trying:
Flyrant TLDevs and OA
Prime with shooty wariors
Prime with devilfexes (2)
Gargs TS/AG (my transport killers)
HGautns TS/AG (my other transport killers)
Stealers with Blord (character hunting)
raveners (no diff terrain)
Swarmlord biomancy buffs
Biovores (anti foot, bypass Aegis defense)
Doom
Parasite with gargs (just watch for S8 characters)
tervifex (CClaws ftw)
Shrikes (depending on HoW rulings)
Tfex (acid Spray)
Yealers
Zoans (Psy versatility)
Trygons (not prime)
Devilguants (prob with spore)
Hiveguard
Harpy (likely not a good pick, but worth trying, especially with a flyrant)
I guess it would have been much easier to pick out the units I would stay away from.....
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Post by gloomfang on Jul 26, 2012 20:28:16 GMT
Wow, I wasn't aware I run a that unusual a list as I have almost all the units you list in it.
My current 1999pt list.
HQ:
Swarmlord with 2 Guard with LW (TK choice)
Prime BS/LW and TS (Goes with SL for chalenges)
Elites:
2 Zoan (TK or keep as is)
2 Venomthrope (Cover for 90% of my army)
Deathleaper
Troops:
10 Dev-termigaunts (Backfield objective holder)
1 Tervigon: Crushing, AG, TS, Cat and Onslaught. (TK or Biomancy)
6 Genestealers TS: Blord ScyTal, TS, Implant. (TK or Biomancy)
6 Genestealers TS: Blord Sytal, TS, Implant. (TK or Biomancy)
14 Hormaguants (Overwatch sponge and tarpit)
FA:
4 Shrikes Dual BS and AG (My elite armor hunters and transport poppers)
Heavy:
Carnifax Dual Scytal, AG, Frag. (Distraction unit and heavy armor killer)
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Post by drummerboy on Jul 26, 2012 20:46:35 GMT
@wisdomeyes: I am sorry maybe I chose the wrong words, but I was just generalizing when I said I wanted a list that didn't revolve around all those said units. I guess what I meant was that every time I make a list it ends up getting edited by me to end up something like the following: For 2k points: Swarm Lord Tyrant guard Flyrant - x2 Dev, OA, Hive Guard (3) Zoanthropes (3) (Usually Doom, HG, or Zoanthropes) Termagant (10) Tervigon - AG,TS, Catalyst, Crushing Claws Termagant (10) Tervigon - AG,TS, Catalyst, Crushing Claws x2 Trygons - Toxin Sacs Obviously I alter this slightly in that I sometimes run a dakka tyrant with armored shell and I change up the 3rd elite slot depending on what mood I'm in (or what models are broken). The problem for me with making my Tyranid lists is not that I don't find units "good", but if you start thinking about synergy and reliability the codex only allows a few good options (especially in the troops section, I find that two tervi's is about the only way I feel like my troops really have an impact on the game other than camping an objective). I started trying to come up with a list yesterday that would be somewhat of an alpha strike, but with a beta strike in there as well. I essentially thought that if I drop enough big stuff in the enemies' lines that some stuff would be able to walk across taking only a little damage during the first turn and I ended back up at the list above. Jabberwocky Keeping in mind the alpha strike (a tactic I think I'd like try) above and applying your 250pt interval idea led me to this: thetyranidhive.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=Tactics&thread=39832I guess its 'out of the box' for me. I feel like if I stepped this up to 2500, I'd add another fex and maybe the parasite...Thanks for the input so far. If you read over my other list and that gives you any thoughts I'd be happy to hear them. |
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Post by killme304 on Jul 26, 2012 21:57:48 GMT
Tyranid primes have always been better than tyrants... Bite your tongue! The flyrant may be expensive, but when you have a nearly guaranteed turn 2 assault, or turn 1 transport popper, that also beats like a truck, you realize its good to be the king (or tyrant, in this case). He will draw fire, and he might even die, but he almost always does his job well. |
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Post by nidzy on Jul 26, 2012 22:47:35 GMT
My current list(1850):
Flyrant: 2 tl devs
Flyrant: 2 tl devs
5 ymgarl
5 ymgarl
Tervigon: ts/ag, scytals, catalyst, cluster
6 genestealers: broodlord (st), toxin sacs
7 genestealers: broodlord (st), toxin sacs
19 devil gaunts: spore
5 raveners
5 raveners
This list has caught my opponents off guard as we are all adjusting our lists regularly. As we settle into lists we are comfortable with I am sure I will continue to adjust it.
I was looking for a fast assault focused list with some shooting for back up. I haven't faced a standard 5th ed mech list with it, but I think it has enough elements to deal with vehicles without relying on hive guard. Of course landraiders will inevitably have to be dealt with by an MC, but I don't often see them in my area anyway.
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Post by wisdomseyes1 on Jul 26, 2012 23:28:26 GMT
Tyranid primes have always been better than tyrants... Bite your tongue! The flyrant may be expensive, but when you have a nearly guaranteed turn 2 assault, or turn 1 transport popper, that also beats like a truck, you realize its good to be the king (or tyrant, in this case). He will draw fire, and he might even die, but he almost always does his job well. Okay, let me be more specific. In terms of a powerful unit, tyrants are better. In terms of a unit that works well with every other unit in our codex, makes any unit better, is cheap and still very Killy, tyranid primes are better. Second turn charge is new. But all that did was justify the cost of wings more than the cost of the tyrant itself. Wins were expensive before, now they are well priced (by no means cheap) an independent character rules only got better. |
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Post by Bot on Jul 27, 2012 0:55:18 GMT
Bite your tongue! The flyrant may be expensive, but when you have a nearly guaranteed turn 2 assault, or turn 1 transport popper, that also beats like a truck, you realize its good to be the king (or tyrant, in this case). He will draw fire, and he might even die, but he almost always does his job well. Okay, let me be more specific. In terms of a powerful unit, tyrants are better. In terms of a unit that works well with every other unit in our codex, makes any unit better, is cheap and still very Killy, tyranid primes are better. Second turn charge is new. But all that did was justify the cost of wings more than the cost of the tyrant itself. Wins were expensive before, now they are well priced (by no means cheap) an independent character rules only got better. Baah. I still think it is wrong to say that the Tyranid prime is better than the Hive tyrant. I mean, they don't even share any role or purpose. The only reason you would ever compare a prime to a tyrant, is because they share FOC slot  Hive commander and Old adversary has always been worth it in those games I've fielded it. Wings has turned it into something that can actually support your army without dying in first turn. It means a lot. Here's a quick example. There are some Terminators near a unit of 20 devilgaunts of yours and you know that unless yo do something, they'll look like nothing less than moshed potatoes at the end of your opponents turn. Luckily you have a Tervigon with catalyst or Endurance and a Flyrant. The Flyrant gets close enough to be within 6" of the Devilgaunts while still being within a decent charge range. The Tervigon casts Enfeeble or Endurance and then moves up as close as it can get to the gaunts and the gaunts form a line to stretch back to Tervigon. Now they should get the benefits from AG and TS from the Tervigon... and because of OA The Devilgaunts now gets Re-rolls to hit and to wound. Taking a couple of Terminators out thought shooting. The Tyrant cast Paroxysm and the Termies now fight like a bunch of monkeys. The Tyrant chargest first, to luck termies in combat. Next, the Devilgaunts now charges in, now protected from overwatch. And there you have it... And that was just a single example. The Flyrant is good at pulling of tricks and surprises that your opponent might not had foreseen. As a bonus, it is a capable of dealing with particular annoying vehicles that are especially dangerous, pretty quick. However, the Flyrant still just doesn't have a place in 1000 games or less IMO, since it is still a pricy unit... Unless of course we are talking about a "Null-deployment" list where it might be worth it. The Walkrants are their for support only, as Combat is something they never see. Taking a walkrant and expect it to see it kick ass, just will never be a good idea... At least not with this codex. Anyway, The prime is pretty good with a great selection of other units... And so is the Flyrant. But saying that the prime works well with any other unit in our codex, might be a little bit exaggerated.  |
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Post by killme304 on Jul 27, 2012 1:07:20 GMT
Tyrant deathstars are still decent in 6th. 2+ armor is actually harder to deal with now, and a 2+ LO,S for both the Tyrant and Prime each lets you do all the stupid wound tricks you could ever want. But then your not taking a flyrant! While the Prime is a nice, cheap version of the tyrant for smaller games, I wouldn't show up to a 1500 without some flavor of tyrant. |
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Post by Bot on Jul 27, 2012 1:18:14 GMT
While the Prime is a nice, cheap version of the tyrant for smaller games NO! Gaah. xD The Prime is not a unit for small games... The Prime is a unit for all games! ^^ ... And a prime is way more than a cheap version of the Tyrant... I still don't get why people keep compare them like were they comparing a Trygon to a Trygon prime... |
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Post by wisdomseyes1 on Jul 27, 2012 1:34:40 GMT
Which is a great reason to compare the 2, because I can't take more than 2 HQ (and trust me, if I could take 3, that 3rd one would STILL be a prime, but that's besides the point, haha)
Old adversary was something that really made the tyrant scary. It made Tyranids offensively scary in was similar to Karios making daemons defensively scary. But then, that's not what I am talking about.
In your example, the tyrant flew out of nowhere and used its buff to make the termagants shots better.
Without the tyrant, what would that wound result have been?
60 shots
30 hits
15 wounds.
2-3 failed saves and dead terminators. For arguments sake, 2 died. That is still near half of them... And then over watch gives you another failed save (60-10-5-1 failed because we under compensated in the last math) and THEN gants strike first at I4, with 20 attacks (40 if a tervigan is nearby and you said there was) for another 2 dead. And if luck says there are any left, that is at most 3 attacks each that deal almost nothing to the gant unit.
I don't think prefered enemy is enough to kill off the entire unit, but it does help. Also, I didn't in any of this example just now, include the primes contributional abilities, such as bone swords or death spitter, chalanging, ext. the prime, however, would more likely use gants as extra wounds than anything else.
I haven't ever heard an argument for a tyrant that isn't extremely similar I what other mc's do, and I have rarely seen a version of the tyrant that isn't upwards of 230 points for a 4 wound mc. I do NOT think the tyrant is bad, I think that the prime is better priced and serves a more effective roll in the way Tyranids play. You may have a different opinion, but as it stands the tyrant doesnt bring enough uniqueness to the table to value it above the flexibility of a prime.
And a tyrant is hardly flexible. You can model a prime any way and no matter how you modeled it, you can stick it in a unit to make the unit stronger than it was and more durable than ever. With a HIve tyrant, you model it the way you want it to function and it doesnt do anything but that function.
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Post by drummerboy on Jul 27, 2012 5:05:32 GMT
@ the prime supporters: As a long time nid player, I am not a huge fan of the prime. Hive tyrant's are da biggest and da strongest HQ's...just kidding. But seriously, I've never had much luck with the prime...I thought about running him with dakka fexes, but I just don't see it working much better than just 2 fexxes...what type of combos do you find the most effective as I've never had him come close to getting his points back?
Also I've been thinking about the parasite and I feel like he could be fun to try out as well any thoughts on him? Thanks everyone for the responses, it sounds stupid but I guess just seeing it all in one place (with so many opinions at that) allowed me to realize some of the other possibilities. I really want to learn to like a different HQ, I don't think I've ever not run the SL w/ guard and possibly a second dakka tyrant. Now I've changed over to the flyrant (big leap)
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