Wound Allocation BS

[Jestar]

AAAARRRRRGGGGGHHH!!!!

Wound allocation is horribly slow and now far worse for us.

Corbolo in a unit of 5 Assault terminators and a Librarian.

Corbolo gets his 3+ Armour, then 2+ FNP against almost all our shooting. If he doesn't get the FNP because it's S8, the shot is then taken on a terminator. Ymgarls are absolutely useless against a unit like this now.

I just had 10 Ymgarls fail to cause a single wound, and then get cut to pieces, and I was charging without going through cover. Because al the models go at the same initiative step, and no character to challenge Corbolo, all the wounds I caused (including rends) were able to go on Corbolo, one at a time, and be saved by Armour, FNP, or both. In 5th ed, that unit would have been a smear on the table, now I'm dying a little inside.

Worst of all, is that Corbolo is only one of many cheesy characters, and while we do have ways around it (enfeeble helps big time when using MC's) those solutions are not reliable.

6th ed. sucks dogs bollix like nothing else.

Rant over...... for now.

[Lanesend]

It could mean that you have to revise your tactics in taking his unit down.
You could use enfeeble, like you said or maybe a TMC with Iron Arm or Smash, or tie him up with 90 points of rippers.

Wound allocation changed for everyone and we have to find new ways of dealing with it.

[nurglitch]

I think you're doing it wrong. For example, if you were charging through moving through cover, then your Ymgarl Genestealers will have a better Initiative than anything Corbulo and company have to offer, rather than attacking at the same initiative step.

Corbulo gets a 2+ Look Out, Sir!, if he fails that (or doesn't take it) then a Sv3+, and Feel No Pain at 5+. If he's hit with a rending hit, AP2, then you either take a Feel No Pain roll at 5+ to ignore the wound, or you take a Look Out, Sir! roll at 2+ to transfer it to a model within 6". If you fail the Look Out, Sir! roll then it's the Feel No Pain roll and most likely a wound. If you pass, then some Terminator gets a Iv3+/5+ and Feel No Pain 5+.

[drummerboy]

Corbulo has a 2+ FNP special rule...this is actually a pretty tough tactic. In a case like this I would pop the transport (if there is one) and ignore the unit until they were all that was left. That unit is fun but they could be dealt with if enough stuff focuses on them. You could always just give them the swarmlord treatment...that hasn't failed me yet...once she gets into btb she is a brute for sure.

[zephoid]

Corbulo has a 2+ fnp. Only way to deal with him is MCs normally. Assaulting simply doesnt work all the time anymore. For some reason GW felt assault was too powerful and hit it hard in this edition. Every other army in the game had other ways to play or got some pretty nifty buffs (see BA). Nids got the short stick.

Really the best way to deal with BA is the same way we deal with any deathstar now, enfeeble. If you can get it through DTW you can get anything from Tfexe's templates to BL devourers to ID them. With the number of psykers in the nid codex you can really throw around a lot of powers. Get 2 casts off and even genestealers or uber gaunts can deny FNP and wound on 3s, which should kill the unit in 1 charge pretty easily.

So, lots of tervigons, lots of zoans. Man this edition list building got dull.

[gloomfang]

Not sure how the assault terminators are going at the same init as stealers (as you said you didn't charge through cover.)
Also the way to deal with that is to not charge Corbulo. If he is not in BtB when the Stealers pile in then wounds can not be allocated to him.
Also did you not have a Broodlord? I know the librarian could have taken the challange, but even then it would have helped.

[nurglitch]

I stand corrected on Corbulo's Feel No Pain number.

Okay, so I'm inclined to agree that your problem was charging the squad with Ymgarl Genestealers - expensive, yet ineffective against the target you chose for them. Old One Eye, on the other hand, could have been better if you could have charged it in - No Feel No Pain, no Armour, and lots of attacks.

[WestRider]

The problem with Init isn't that he's striking at the same time as the BAs. It's that, because all the Yealers are striking at the same Init, he can't put a Model with a different Init on Corbulo to pull him out of the possible Wound Allocation Pool for the Attacks, and so he can tank everything.

I think 6th Ed may push us to MSU in a way that 5th Ed didn't, because there are a lot of situations like this that are very difficult to deal with unless we Assault with multiple Units. If you can Charge some Termagants in alongside, and get one of them on Corbulo, he can only take Gaunt Wounds for the most part, and the Yealers can tear into the Termies freely. Or better yet, get a Tyrant or Tärv in there, issue a Challenge, and start Smashing.

[nurglitch]

Considering it was about 230pts worth of Ymgarl Genestealers hitting 400+pts of Blood Angels, I think you may have a point about charging with multiple units.

[swarm492]

Personaly I dont like the wound games that can be played in 6th, but its no different than the games that could be played in 5th. Your welcome to do it as well with a iron armed tyrant at the tip of some tyrant guard.

[wisdomseyes1]

I think this is less a wound allocation, Issue an more a new feel no pain issue....

Just saying if feel no pain still feel to ap2/1 we wouldn't even be having this discussion. And, if I remember, last edition some guy did the math where he assumed he got feel no pain, and it made him the second most survivable unit in the game (Karios still wins out with 3++ t5, 3 wounds and reroll fails) or maybe it was "most survivable poit for point" but how you calculate that I do not know (and some people can an have)

[Jabberwocky]

Corbulo cost almost as much as the Ymgarls by himself and you wonder why you lost?

It was also a bad match up. Swarmlord, enfeebling Flyrant or Tervifex would have rolled him point for point.

[coredump]

Hey Jestar, sorry for the loss of your Yealers...

Couple of points: As Nurglitch pointed out, you used 230 pts of CC badness, to assault 400+ pts of CC super-badness. Not a winning hand.

Also, you didn't realize the ramifications of this when you did it. There are tactics to mitigate this, and some have already been mentioned.
Another is maneuvering. Corbulo can't be in front from every direction. Use a more mobile unit to get shots at the termies without going through Corbulo.

Which brings us to your charge. You charged and thus had some control to stop this. What you need to do is attack from a direction and distance that your yealers would not get into base contact with Corbulo on the charge, nor the I6 pile-in. If you are not in base contact, he can't have wounds allocated to him.

I am assuming that Corbulo made all of those saves, and did not fail a save and then LOS the unsaved wound. That would not be legal.

Corbulo averages just over 1 wound from those attacks. He got a bit lucky. If he was just a bit unlucky, he would be dead instead.


But as a final point. This match up would have been almost as bad in 5th.
10:40:26.6:9/4 So 9 wounds and 4 rends. True the rends ignore FnP, but they would have been put on the Termies with their 3++ save. So while you would have done better, you would not have done well.

[fragile]

Without seeing the board, if you run into a unit like that just try to angle your charges so that your not getting to Corbulo if thats possible. He doesnt pile in until his Ini step.

I think the wound games will seriously stall the games, at least where I play. OTOH a Prime with a full squad of warriors can eat 21 wounds before losing a model if all the dice let you

[seahawk]

I am assuming that Corbulo made all of those saves, and did not fail a save and then LOS the unsaved wound. That would not be legal.

Actually it's quite legal. You can make LOS! rolls either before or after rolling saves.