Nidvirgin Seeking Guidance

[emoge]

You've overlooked Hive Guard ^_^ I would definitely shave some points and an elite slot (or 2!) for 2-6 Hive Guard. You won't regret it.

Also, the Prime upgrade on the Trygon seems like a waste of points in your current list. You normally only take the Prime upgrade for a little more synapse. In your above list the only unit that needs synapse at all looks to be the venomthrope and in the current list you have 3 things giving synapse so you're perfectly fine dropping the prime upgrade.

I like warriors a lot... in theory. Every time I take them they disappoint though. I'd steer clear of them.

Even though the comments are old I have to advise against doing a full reserve list, seconding the reasons Lanesend mentioned especially regarding the Trygon. Trygons function much better already on the field with a screen or trudging through cover.

[DukeMantis]

Thanks for the speedy replies guys, very useful info from you all!

I have been told time and time again how valuable hive guard are i cant believe i forgot them for this list! If i drop the single zoan and the prime upgrade i can afford a unit of two i think, might be a nice little pwny unit for the 1000point starterlist..

Ive only got the venomthrope in there to give coversaves to the gaunt broods and nearby warriors, as some opponents can still fit a fair bit of cheap ordnance into 1k armies from what ive seen.

Trygon Prime: First off i just bloody love Trygons, but the reasoning (or lack of) behind Priming it was that when it comes up from the ground (in the opponents face i hope) it will throw synapse cover over there side of the table HOPEFULLY just as the remnants of my swarm is closing for the assault. My theory is that my tyranid warriors and even my tervignon might be close to death by the time they are ready for assault and i dont want to lose all my synapse at a critical moment... these are the juxtapositions of a new nid player of course so maybe im overthinking it

Defo taking the hive guard - i presume they just grab cover and pew pew all game.

[Inquisitor Stingray]

Hey again,

I have to second the Hive Guard thing. These guys are rockhard and can deal plenty of damage to most of the vehicles you will be facing at 1000 points. I find that three is the right number, though two could work as well. Just remember to keep them within Synapse, the Impaler Cannon doesn't work properly when they are subject to IB: Lurk.

If the rumours are true, Killpoints are a thing of the past in the new edition, so having small broods may not be a problem anymore. I don't think the Zoanthrope is worth taking without a spore, they are simply too slow and short-ranged. Also, the Warp Lance is prone to getting shut down by Hoods and the Lance is somewhat overkill when you won't find much armor above 12.

As for the Trygon Prime, I'd drop the upgrade. Not only do you have plenty of Synapse but the physical model looks silly. A coil, really? The only exception to this is when facing Grey Knights, you'll need Shadow in the Warp against their Force Weapons.

Hormagaunts without Toxin Sacs... I see little reason in taking these without this Biomorph. Sure they get somewhat more pricey, but against T3 they'll re-roll failed Wounds and against anything with T4 or more, they'll still reliably deal out damage.

[patrunkenphat7]

Not to derail the conversation... But the rumor is that killpoints will be gone? Seriously?? Wow, killpoints were the only downside to my beloved Tervigons; I am so happy about that... What will killpoint missions be replaced with? I will search the rumor mill so that this isn't derailed too much, but this should be changing all army-building strategy immensely.

[Inquisitor Stingray]

The Killpoint system was introduced in fifth edition and was immideately subject to a lot of hate. With good reason, I might add, seeing as every army suffer from it. Apparently Victory Points will be brought back, which is just fine. Simply put, you gain (or the opponent loses) points equal to his destroyed units. So killing a buffed up Tervigon would yield the opponent about 200 points and so on. I do believe there are further rules, like an Immobilised tank giving yileding some Victory Points, even though it is not wrecked/destroyed.

[DukeMantis]

Im wondering how to solve the dilemma of keeping Hive Guard (which feels like a camp and shoot unit) in synapse when the rest of my army is going to be moving up the table and into the enemy... maybe my Tervignon hangs back (provided it isnt dead ).

Thanks alot for the advice, although i cant say i agree that Trygons look silly, matter of personal taste!

[fragile]

It really not hard, jsut bring them along behind your lines, walk and shoot. They will generate enough hate that most opponents will target them even with the 4+ cover save. Less shots into your MCs.

[DukeMantis]

Can they move and shoot without penalty?

[Inquisitor Stingray]

They can indeed. Every weapon in our codex is the Assault type, meaning even Tyrannofexen, Biovores or the aforementioned Hive Guards can advance with the rest of the army. Try the Onslaught Tervigon Power for some nice runnin'-and-shootin' or vice versa, should you prefer so.

[fragile]

Onslaught works really good with Hive Guard with their limited range. Not to mention the more priority you put on trying to protect them, the more priority the enemy puts on trying to kill them. I have seen more than one person expose themselves to get shots lined up on a Hive Guard unit tucked out of LOS.

[DukeMantis]

Ok so after another flurry of nice info and advice from the hive, a reformulated list! Bear in mind this is a 1000 point starter list for a new Tyranid player! Once this list is finalised, built and tested ill be moving on to my 1500 and 2000 point lists! I hope youll be able to help along the way to Tyranid domination of my hometown :DDD

HIVE FLEET MANTIS: First Wave.
1000pt Tyranids.

HQ-

1xTervignon w/ Catalyst
16x Hormagaunts w/ Toxin Sacs
16x Hormagaunts w/ Toxin Sacs
8x Genestealers w/ Rending Claws and Scything Talons
2x Hive Guard w/ No Upgrades
1x Trygon w/ No Upgrades
3x Tyranid Warriors w/ No Upgrades

PTS TOTAL: 949

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So to incorporate the Hive Guard and Toxin Sacs on the Hormagaunts that are seemingly mandatory i have lost the synapse of the Trygon, the Venomthrope, The Zoanthrope, Toxin Sacs on the Tervignon and the stealers are no longer Ymgarl. All this still leaves me 51 points unspent, i didnt spend them yet because ive had a few different ideas in how to invest them....

1) Prime the Trygon: Its more deadly, it gives synapse. Seen as im dead set on blowing 200 points on this beast why not make it more useful, even at 1000 pts many opponents should kill my Tervignon or Warriors in a turn or two with concentrated shooting if im unlucky so a little extra cover to get us through the latter stage of the battle might be useful.

2) Broodlord: The stealers in this little 1k list are now no longer Ymgarl (sadface) but that doesnt mean i cant pimp them a little by adding a broodlord with scything talons. They will be duck and covering alot but if they do make combat the broodlord will make sure they win.

3) Give the Tervignon Onslaught and one of the token Synapsewarriors a heavy weapon. Might help close the gap and assist with pinning/shooting on the way in.

------------------------------------

Any suggestions or comments would be greatly appreciated, the sooner im comfortable with my 1k list the sooner i can get stuck into buying the extras i need and nomming things!

[Xantige]

Tervigon, not Tervignon

Sorry that I'm late to this thread, but here's the 2 cents I usually give to everyone: Remember that nids can be played in many different ways, so when someone tells you to take a unit, take that advice with a grain of salt. Imagine that Tyranids are a cable box for your tv and each type of unit is a channel. Just because someone tells you to get the outdoors channel, doesn't mean that YOU will like it. Try to recognize when someone is telling you how they play Tyranids, and when they're advising you on how to better achieve the playstyle YOU want. Someone may like a Tervigon spam, their advice to get more Tervigons is detrimental to you if you want a fast Trygon spam list. However, if someone tells you that you may want to take more of one unit you have listed, they're probably trying to help you achieve the style you want, instead of just saying what they use.

I'm no tactition, but this is advice that I've heard from others that might help you out:

1) If you want a Trygn Prime at 1,000, go for it, but understand that you are putting 25% of your points into a single unit. If that single model dies you will be facing your opponent with a 760 point list. Generally, putting that many "eggs" into "one basket" is going to put you in trouble. The Trygon is a nice tall model, and it'll attract a lot of fire.

2) I've found that the only reason to put upgrades on gaunts, is to make them able to kill things. That's a no brainer, but when you take gaunts, you need to ask yourself what roll you want them to play. If you just want a cheap meat shield to grant a cover save to your bigger bugs, and if you have want models that can tie up the enemy in combat to keep them from shooting big bugs, than having more bodies is better than upgrades. However, if you want your gaunts to kill things, that's where having the upgrades is helpful. Just remember, your gaunts become a glass canon with upgrades, so you have to protect them and move them wisely. You also have to size up the enemy and only take on what you KNOW you can kill, or half your squad may die to resolution wounds. I'm sure there are people out there that can successfully field upgraded gaunts as a killing force AND a shield, but it takes knowledge of how to move, and guessing your opponents moves, so if you aren't a veteran, it may be hard.

3) Toxin sacs on Genestealers is great if you're facing an army without invul saves. If you're going against an army with invul saves though, than more bodies may help you out more. As for the Scything Talons... common consensus seems to place those as only an okay upgrade. Yes, they make genestealers deadly, but genestealers are already deadly, so maybe those points could go towards making something else deadly.

4) Most people field the Tervigon with Toxin Sacs and Adrenal Glands, most people won't consider a Tervign without them. The reason being, is that they give all Termagants within 6" of them those upgrades -- but only if the Terv has them. Essentially your Termagants get 2 free upgrades which makes them far more formidable.

I heard somewhere that at 1,000, you want about 2-3 sources of synapse. So your list looks good for synapse.

I'm not really sure what to recommend you take with those last few points. It kind of depends on the meta of your game club. But if you only have Warriors for synapse, I don't see a reason to add more bodies to the unit. Maybe buff up the Tervigon with AD and TS, and see if you can squeeze an extra stealer or gaunt in?

[DukeMantis]

Lol.. Tervignon, i DID think it was odd that it was written like french word xD
Lol i misread Tervigon, ive been going around pronouncing it with a french accent

Thank you very much for your post Xantige, its very helpful. Planning a 1k list seems to be awkward to be honest, as if i go all out to make it balanced in all areas i seem weak overall, and if i focus purely on one aspect i have to accept if that plan doesnt work im likely toast... so i have resolved to abandon a 1k list for now and jump straight to 1500 so i have room to expand on my formative nid army ideas!

Will repost it soon

[Xantige]

Jun 24, 2012 16:52:22 GMT DukeMantis said:

Lol.. Tervignon, i DID think it was odd that it was written like french word xD
Lol i misread Tervigon, ive been going around pronouncing it with a french accent

Thank you very much for your post Xantige, its very helpful. Planning a 1k list seems to be awkward to be honest, as if i go all out to make it balanced in all areas i seem weak overall, and if i focus purely on one aspect i have to accept if that plan doesnt work im likely toast... so i have resolved to abandon a 1k list for now and jump straight to 1500 so i have room to expand on my formative nid army ideas!

Will repost it soon

Low level lists can be awkward to make. I tried making a 500 point list the other day, and no matter what I took, it felt lacking and awkward. Just remember, that just as the points limit you, they limit your opponent. You shouldn't be bringing in units to take out a Land Raider at 500 points . That's why people recommended the Hive Guard over the Zoanthropes in your 1000 point list.

I've yet to go higher than 1000 points (not enough models), but I've been told that the higher the point level, the less "random" the game plays out. By that they usually mean that if a lucky hit kills something of yours, it's less likely to be an auto lose for you, while at 1000 or 500, a lucky shot can destroy you.

[DukeMantis]

Thank you for your awesome advice Xantige and all you other awesome nidpeeps!

After much contemplation (and anticipation as ive ordered the new rulebook :DDD) I have compiled a new army list to work towards; it may have some flaws as i have not seen the new rulebook yet. Ive tried to make a balanced force that fits in all the things i like and still have some decent tactical options. As always i would be very gratefull for any input whatsoever!


HIVE FLEET MANTIS
Tyranid Army List 2K

HQ- Hive Tyrant
Hive Commander, Scything Talons, Heavy Venom Cannon 255
Armoured Shell, Regeneration.

20 Hormagaunts
Scything Talons+ Toxin Sacs. 160

20 Hormagaunts
Scything Talons+ Toxin Sacs. 160

8 Stealers w/ Broodlord 192
Rending Talons + Scything Claws, spore. 40
8 Ymgarl Stealers
Rending Talons + Scything Claws. 168

10 Termagaunts 100
Devourers

Tervigon
Catalyst + Onslaught 190

2 Hive Guard 100

2 Hive Guard 100

6 Raveners 180

1 Trygon Prime 240

3 Warriors
Barbed Strangler, Devourers, Scything Talons 105

1 Ripper Swarm 10

2000 PTS.

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If the raveners dont prove to be worth their points i would likely trade them for Malantai+Spore or normal Zoans. I was thinking of using the ravs with the Trygon Prime footslogging, or if im deepstriking the Prime let them run along with the rest of the mob.

Thanks in advance