Nidvirgin Seeking Guidance

[DukeMantis]

Hello folks,

As a newcomer to these forums, and to Tyranids as an army i would just like to thank you all for contributing to such an incredible resource! Ive read a lot of articles and been very impressed by the wisdom shared here.

Im a longtime Warhammer fantasy player who has dabled in 40k from time to time down the years (Eldar) and after a two year hiatus im looking to get back into the hobby. After discovering a gaming group local to my new home that predominantly play 40k, i decided to go for Nids and get the dice rolling again.

Introductions aside, i would like to turn any interested peoples attention to the army i have forming in my (hive)mind. Ive started out purchasing a Trygon and a battleforce and have taken a break from painting to plan my fledgling list. I think ill be fighting marines and orks mostly, any and all opinions or advice on what i post below would be epic!

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Hive Fleet Mantis (Teh Jungulnidz)
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HQ
Hive Tyrant with balanced fighty/shooty gear and hive commander upgrade.

Two Tyrant Guard bulletshields.

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2 Zoanthropes with a Deepstrike Spore (2broods of 2 when i get a larger force, perhaps malan'tai)

1Venomthrope
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8-10 Stealers

8-10 Stealers

30 Hormagaunts

30 Hormagaunts

20 Termagaunts w/ Tervignon

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Two Trygon Primes (One prime, one regular try if i dont have the points).

2 Hive Guard (upgrading to 2 units of 2 as the army grows).

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Strategy: Although this is going to differ depending on my opponent or the objective of the battle overall my vanilla plan is to use the gaunts, tyrant and venomthrope as a horde rushing up the table, outflank with my genestealers and deepstrike with the zoanthropes. Hide in cover and shoot stuff with the Hive guard and depending on the situation either deepstrike or footslog the Trygons. Another thought i had was taking the termagaunts as devilgaunts and giving them a spore also.

Although i havnt listed all my upgradey biomorph ideas here it will be close combat orientated everywhere (that thing that lets you reroll missed hits is nice!) apart from the obvious shooty units (zoans,hiveguard). I much prefer hormagaunts to termagaunts so am leaning toward fielding just a few but generating lots more with the tervignon as the game goes on.

Is this a viable gameplan? Is there any units im overlooking that could beef out the swarm or flanking forces? It seems providing multiple threats is going to be key i was hoping the two Trygons would achieve this. Thanks in advance nidlordz!

[avsimone]

Welcome to the hive. Scythnig talons is pretty nice. I would recommend getting some broodlords for those stealers. They are beast, trust me. If you only take one trygon give it regen, get more venomthropes, and when you know which side the stealers are outflanking on, walk your horde to the other side, making the person choose which one they shoot at, 'cause they will die if either one gets to their army. also if you want a little faster horde get gargoyles, and a flyrant or some raveners to go with the trygon prime. overall pretty good, just remember to keep it point efficient and give everything a screen of somekind.

[DukeMantis]

Thanks for the welcome and the advice! Flyrant and Gargoyles is something ive looked closely at and i think its an excellent setup, but im not sure about commiting to that strategy while im still trying to master 'basic' nid tactica- i might opt for a group of raveners with my Trygon and see how that goes, how many would you say is a good size support unit?

Also if i may ask, why do you think i would need more than one venomthrope? Purely because the enemy will kill him quickly making me lose the valuable coversave on my gaunt horde?

[hiveguardalpha]

I've tried running a Vthrope a couple of times and it gets popped really easily. I've been telling myself that, perhaps, they don't run so well as single model broods - therefore, I've bought a second and I'm planning on running a 2-model brood

As much as the cover save on them is useful, I'm still trying to find a justification to field them!

[blur]

I'm new too, looks like we can be new budddies:D Ha, see what I did there? c:

[Lanesend]

Hi, Dukemantis, welcome to the Hive.

I second Avsimone's idea about the Broodlord, but must say it's a personel preferance. A lot of people swear by them, but others say to take more normal Genestealers. (a BL costs about the same as 4 stealers!).

I would definately NOT take regen on a lone Trygon or any Monsterous creature for that matter. Much to expensive IMO. A smart player will shoot him down in one shooting phase. But I would take AG on a Trygon. Being able to strike before Marines is very much worth it for ten points.

Raveners, I tend to use in groups of 4 - 6 models. With Rending claws, but without shooty options, because they will be running when they are not fighting. 3-4 Raveners can do a lot of damage, but I expect a few to get gunned down, before they reach combat.

All in all, I think you've got a pretty good idea of what you want to do with your army.
Tooth and Claw for the win!

[TheContortionist]

i'm gonna tell you what everyone else should be telling you. you need more hive guard. That aside, more termagaunts are always good. i LOVE the Doom. I have never liked hormmagaunts. Keep your stealer broods small and outflank them. I have never like venomthrope (it's the coolest looking model, but not worth the elite slot.) I like the prime/no prime split on the trygons.

[DukeMantis]

Awesome advice guys your helping me formulate my first proper list! Some of you have corroborated alot of my gut feelings about units and gear (the trygon split, venomthropes being cool but facerolleable, hiveguard=win etc). Thanks especially for the suggestions on ravener unit sizing and i guess with the broodlord issue its going to be trial and error to feel out whats right for my style. Feeling much more confident now!

Once ive finalised a proper army list ill post it here in the hope youll all glance it to bits^^

Double Trygon (one prime, one regular) hypothesis - Should i put the prime footslogging with a screen of raveners and deepstrike the regular Trygon along with my Zoanthropes - in the hope there synapse will keep the big guy covered in the first turn or two? Or is it better to run the flanking force of Raveners with the regular Trygon and try to stay near a big Synapse from the center of my horde?

It seems clear to me but i would hear the will of the Hive in this matter!

[TheContortionist]

try to stay as close to everything else as you can. i feel that when i split forces i loose more than i win. But of course there will be times when splitting is better, and sometimes it's hard not to split.

[avsimone]

I say deep strike them all. personally I really like a deep strike army, they don't come in first turn, but that's all prep work for when my deep strikers come in. I would recommend deep striking where the oponent doesn't have a really good assault squad like a heavy weapons squad. not many armies have heavy gunners that can do ok in assault, but what will happen is that the heavy gunners will attempt to flee, and if the opponent's doesn't want this squadron to die, they will send in a tank, or some other thing that we can destroy. all in all, if you concentrate your deep strike, you could have a two sided strike happening causing the opponent to question what part of your army to fight. causing a split up in forces. chaos ensues and you can pick off isolated squads.

[Lanesend]

In my experience, DSing a Trygon next to a heavy weapons team equals a dead trygon. They don't have to flee, because they can shoot him down (with the help of another squad or tank). You can't be sure when they come in, except when you take a Tyrant AND a Swarmlord.

If you run them up the field screened by Raveners, screened by Hormagaunts, they will have cover (with a bit of luck) and can thus take twice as many wounds. You will also know for sure when and where they hit. Just make sure they don't stop to shoot, but keep 'em running all the way into assault.

Of course, as with most opinions, this is just my opinion.

[danielhayman]

AAw, i have junglenids Called Hive Fleet Mantis XD my advice is, prepare to spend too much money on Elites. £45 for 3 zoans is awful.

[Inquisitor Stingray]

Hey man, welcome to the Hive and to Tyranids!

First of, how many points is the list? You probably mentioned it somewhere, but I can't seem to find it.

In games smaller than 2000 points, I advice against taking the Hive Tyrant. The model is freaking awesome, but he tends to soak up a lot of points, and even more bullets once fielded. Granted, when given an Armored Shell he becomes somewhat immune to KMD*, but Lascannons, Dark/Bright Lances and Plasma shots will still take him down fast. Then again, seeing as you will be facing mostly Orks and Space Marines, this may not be a real problem. Leech Essence is good for taking out mobs of Ork boyz.

You've got two big blobs of Hormagaunts which is cool, but they aren't worth much without Synapse backing them up, so I guess having two Trygons nearby is a good idea, even though I don't like the look of the Prime version. I mean, a coil? And those mandibles? Please.

A single Venomthrope is a bit too fragile, especially if your opponent is aware of its many abilities. When playing smaller games, I advice taking a Tyranid Prime instead of a Hive Tyrant. The Prime is almost as deadly and a lot cheaper and since it's an Independent Character, it is perfect for babysitting Venomthropes, Zoanthropes or similiar. Also remember that Hive Guards are Elites and not Heavy Support.

Good luck!

[DukeMantis]

Hello again everyone, seen as you shared such excellent nuggets of wisdom after my first few posts i have this update! Hoping to hear from you guys some more!

I have a big scary list planned but as many of you know building armies doesnt happen over night, with this in mind i have made a modest 1000pts list to work towards first, my hope is ill be able to compete a bit with it and learn the value of a few key elements of my bigger army. Although ive played fantasy for many years ive always been a very casual 40k player, so i realise there is many subtlties to generalship of different armies, i may have a few questions pertaining to that in later posts!

HIVE FLEET MANTIS: FIRST WAVE
1000PTS Tyranid Army List

HQ- Tervignon - 175
Catalyst

Troops- (no additional upgrades)

16 Hormagaunts - 96
16 Hormagaunts - 96
3 Tyranid Warriors - 90

Elites -

8x Ymgarl Stealers - 184
1x Zoanthrope - 60
1x Venomthrope - 55

Heavy Support-

1x Trygon Prime - 240 pts

----------------------------------- 996 PTS -------------------------------------

The Plan:
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Hgaunts, warriors and Terv form a hordey line with the Vthrope behind giving them cover, Zoanthrope floats alot with them because i cant afford pts for a pod (sadface). Ymgarl genes and Trygon will be on scare patrol trying to jump the enemy as the main army advances, any Tgaunts spawned will probably form a flakshield or hold objectives.

Choices:
- Bargainapse: I dont rate Tyranid warriors (even though i do like them aesthetically) so the three cheap ones in this list are purely for cheap synapse as the Tervignon is going to get shot alot.

- Lonethropes: I think 1 Zoan and 1 Venom will go down mighty fast, but im trying to provide my enemy with multiple targets in the hope that if they leave my Hgaunts and Ymgarls alone for a tur or two because they are shooting the big stuff - i might make it into combat with the bigger mobs intact(ish). In the event they Venom/Zoan dont get a krak missile upside the head and die in turn 1 they can provide valuable coversave/anti tank to my swarm....

QUESTION: Should i drop all the half assed units (the lonethropes and/or warriors) and replace them with something more effective (buffed troop units, a single larger brood of one of the aforementioned thropes/warriors or something else that i have overlooked at 1k pts).

[patrunkenphat7]

Hey Dukemantis,
I too am relatively new to 'nids, but I have been skirmishing the 750-1000 points range a bit to get accustomed to the army. I think dropping both thropes for some Hive Guard would be beneficial. They are tougher and are fantastic at this points range. They help me take down the light vehicles that you might have a difficult time dealing with with your current list. Your synapse is fine already without the Zoanthrope. I have not run into a situation where I needed a Zoanthrope at this points level, and even if you did, it would be the first thing to die with only one model in your unit.

Just my 2 cents!