GSC iWin button...

[dode74]

Not my idea, but I thought I'd drop this here and see what people think of this as a concept:

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Since Knights are making everyone sad, GW gave GSC the ability to kill a knight in a single turn using four models, three non-BRB rule books, two 18" range psychic powers and a partridge in a pear tree single Command Point!



Step 1: Take a GSC Detachment with a Patriarch. Take the Mental Onslaught power and give him the Inspiring Leader warlord trait from the BRB.

Step 2: Also include a Clamavus and an Acolyte Iconward.

Step 3: Make it a "Deliverance Broodsurge" detachment from Vigilus Defiant.

Step 4: Give your Acolyte Iconward the "Vial of the Grandsire's Blood" relic from Vigilus Defiant.

Step 5: Include a Brood Brothers detachment with either an Astropath or Primaris Psyker. Give them the "Terrifying Visions" power.

Step 6: Somehow get both psykers within 18" of a Knight (or any other Ld9 or below model) and successfully cast Terrifying Visions, followed by Mental Onslaught.



That model now has no choice but to die horribly. Your Patriarch is now Leadership 13, which means the minimum roll you can get is 13+1=14 for your Mental Onslaught, while the maximum the enemy model can generate is 9-2+6=13.



That means that Knight Castellan with 28 wounds just melts into a pile of goo.



If you can somehow include a Tyranid Detachment and use "The Horror", or include a Locus you can delete any Ld 10 unit in the game, including a Warlord Battle Titan with 70 wounds (Void Shields do nothing because the power only stops if "you fail to inflict 1 mortal wound by having a score higher than your opponent’s.")

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Cost of the above, not including a Nid for "The Horror", is 279pts if you take the Primaris Psyker option (making everyone a CHARACTER with <10 wounds).

[mattblowers]

I discussed similar idea on another thread but hadn't worked it out to this degree. It does rely on 2 powers going off and not getting denied. Otherwise it is solid.

Question that I haven't sorted out yet: If you try this on something with a +++ and they save the wound, does it stop? You fail to inflict a mortal wound, but not by failing to have a score higher than opponent. With +++ is the wound inflicted and then saved so it's not lost? Or is the wound simply negated and not inflicted? I have no idea.

[No One]

You still inflict the mortal wound, they just don't lose a wound. So it keeps going.

It's been discussed, and it's a combo to remember, but...the full thing requires a WC6 power and a WC7 power to go off through denies, and also get a 6" move model into 18" of the target (move move move is sort of an option, but still). As opportunity cost, it also requires a relic (which is hotly contested), your WL trait (doing nothing else) and probably an IG det (depends if you were already taking one for some reason). If you don't have the full thing go off...it's good, but definitely not 'I Win button' good. A handful of mortals on tough targets is nice, and you still have the ability to delete low/med ld stuff if the power goes off though, so having the option and some of the pieces isn't bad.

[mattblowers]

No One: I think the trick is to find a way to have the pieces still contribute to your list if don't face a Castellan. Being against the meta always leave me playing catchup and I never get the lists I expected.

My last RTT tournament I didn't face a single Knight despite them being in 60% of the lists. I got lucky and won the event outright as I was the only undefeated list. I skated on round 2 by having the most points and routing a cultist spam list and the two top Castellan lists pulverized each other with one barely squeaking a victory while I got max points.

[No One]

mattblowers said:

No One: I think the trick is to find a way to have the pieces still contribute to your list if don't face a Castellan. Being against the meta always leave me playing catchup and I never get the lists I expected.

Yep: this is where clamavus/horror is good, iconward isn't bad (though likely only worth if needed for slot filler) even if not taking banner/Vigilus and WL trait/relic/power is flexible. IG det for this is...not, with little relevance for ld shenanigans outside of this, and no other useful guard powers unless actually taking guard. Similarly with locus, who is...questionable in an army with an armywide bodyguard rule.

Do note that there's definitely other situations where this is still good though apart from knights: WC 6 delete a model is far from bad, and can happen into other match ups even without the suite of ld effects.

[Hive Fleet Ragnorok]

Yeah, ability to easily delete a huge unit of gaunts (ld 5) and the like is something to qconsider for board control from a power.

[No One]

It can't (well, technically it can, but that requires your opponent to do it for you), it stops once you kill the model.

[mattblowers]

Feb 15, 2019 14:44:15 GMT Hive Fleet Ragnorok said:

Yeah, ability to easily delete a huge unit of gaunts (ld 5) and the like is something to qconsider for board control from a power.

Sadly, the power only allows you to pick one model. It stops when the model dies or you fail to score higher on the roll-off.

[zimko]

I'd forgo the IG detachment and instead take a Flyrant (which you'd take anyway if you're using allies) and use the Horror. The Flyrant can arrive from DS along side the Patriarch, Iconward and Clamavus. I'd also give the Patriarch a Crouchling so that you only need a 5 for the power to go off. Against a Knight, the only way for the pain train to stop is for you to roll a 1 and your opponent to roll a 6. That's an average of 30+ wounds. (1 in 36 chance to roll a 1 followed by a 6. Same odds as rolling 2 6s). And if you ended up getting close but not quite killing the knight, then you have Hive Guard to finish it off.

In addition to all this, I'd take 1 or 2 large units of Acolytes for the Clamavus and Iconward to buff. In a Cult of the Four Armed Emperor detachment, these acolytes would have +2 to their charge with a free reroll from the Iconward's warlord trait from Broodsurge.

And the beauty of all this is... if your opponent isn't running a Large target for your power, then you have the option at a tournament to change your warlord traits and relics to fit the opponent you're facing (Except for the free relic, which in this case I'd make it the Crouchling because you're already paying for the familiar). You could change the Iconward relic to the +1 strength relic or the Patriarch's warlord trait to the +d3 CP trait. None of the components of this combo are useless without a target for the power.

[mattblowers]

zimko: The only issue I see is that you are required by ITC to list your free relic and warlord trait on your list. Depends on the tournament you are going to.

[No One]

zimko said:

That's an average of 30+ wounds. (1 in 36 chance to roll a 1 followed by a 6. Same odds as rolling 2 6s)

No, it's not. Essentially, you'd have not had to roll 2 6s 30 times in a row. Which is (35/36)^30=0.43. Your average (including cast odds for onslaught only: WC6 is about 72%, so horror odds as well aren't great. You could still do things without horror if you were running full guaranteed ld buffs though) is somewhere around 22 wounds though.

mattblowers said:

zimko: The only issue I see is that you are required by ITC to list your free relic and warlord trait on your list. Depends on the tournament you are going to.

Why do they require you to list trait? Free relic's not an issue: as zimko said, you'll always want the crouchling anyway for might/hyp.

[dandc]

Do we reckon this will get nerfed in the FAQ? Perhaps with the addition of 'unmodified' leadership?

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Feb 16, 2019 14:47:24 GMT dandc said:

Do we reckon this will get nerfed in the FAQ? Perhaps with the addition of 'unmodified' leadership?

I thought they'd mentioned that this was as intended. I'm thinking that they might limit it to +/-1 on each side though.

Granted, it's a great character sniping tool and GSC seems to have a lot of those going around. They might leave it, but if you run it, you might lose some friends

Edit: found it
www.warhammer-community.com/2019/02/11/11th-feb-genestealer-cults-tactica-part-2gw-homepage-post-2/

[dandc]

Good work, that does look promising.

[devilrules]

Feb 16, 2019 0:57:27 GMT No One said:

zimko said:

That's an average of 30+ wounds. (1 in 36 chance to roll a 1 followed by a 6. Same odds as rolling 2 6s)

No, it's not. Essentially, you'd have not had to roll 2 6s 30 times in a row. Which is (35/36)^30=0.43. Your average (including cast odds for onslaught only: WC6 is about 72%, so horror odds as well aren't great. You could still do things without horror if you were running full guaranteed ld buffs though) is somewhere around 22 wounds though.

mattblowers said:

zimko: The only issue I see is that you are required by ITC to list your free relic and warlord trait on your list. Depends on the tournament you are going to.

Why do they require you to list trait? Free relic's not an issue: as zimko said, you'll always want the crouchling anyway for might/hyp.

Don't you both roll the dice at the same time, therefore if you roll a 1 and they roll a 6 you could use a cp reroll with a 5/6 chance you continue the pain