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Post by oatmello on Dec 22, 2017 4:53:23 GMT
Hey hive, been thinking about swapping something out in my pure nids list for a cheap neophyte battalion detachment to put on some pressure right away. I was thinking maybe 2 blobs melee and 1 blob shooty, accompanied by a primus and maybe an iconward for that FNP. Anyway I wanted to know what has been working for you, how you run them, or if this is a bad idea all together? Thank you
Edit: acolyte hybrids can probably do the melee job better... so what are you doing with them as well?
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Post by Hive Bahamut on Dec 22, 2017 5:21:28 GMT
This should be something I jump on. I haven't even touched GSC since about 2 weeks before codex.
I can't find a use for ANY of the units that doesn't feel like a watered down version of Tyranids or Militarum, sub Magus, Primus and Habberants.
I think Neophytes are one of the easier to shuffle in as they don't care about CA. In saying that there isn't really anything they do though.
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Post by No One on Dec 22, 2017 5:55:30 GMT
Hey hive, been thinking about swapping something out in my pure nids list for a cheap neophyte battalion detachment to put on some pressure right away. I was thinking maybe 2 blobs melee and 1 blob shooty, accompanied by a primus and maybe an iconward for that FNP. Anyway I wanted to know what has been working for you, how you run them, or if this is a bad idea all together? Thank you Maybe. I don't think they're useful for what you're planning with them i.e. damage, but they're probably not bad as cheap disposable bodies with innate DS. Especially with the strat. Fairly reliable ability to make a charge out of DS with 20 models to tie things up and be annoying? Also ob sec objective grabbers, though in a lot of ways rippers do this better, just without potential charges. But damage...they're not really doing anything except killing some guardsmen. (Iconward is terrible: FNP is on a per model basis) Playing casual games  . Nids or purestrains do melee way better than acolytes. |
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Post by localcultist on Dec 22, 2017 7:35:38 GMT
This should be something I jump on. I haven't even touched GSC since about 2 weeks before codex. I can't find a use for ANY of the units that doesn't feel like a watered down version of Tyranids or Militarum, sub Magus, Primus and Habberants. I think Neophytes are one of the easier to shuffle in as they don't care about CA. In saying that there isn't really anything they do though. The difference between Index and Codex army is just staggering, I had exactly same sentiment about Dark Angels (and still have about Orks) before Codex hit. I really hope GSC would get proper units. In the mean time, I'll use GSC Vanguard or Supcom as glue for AM and Nids (the actual armies), with maybe Magi council (wasn't Smite spam nerfed recently tho?) and Purii drop. Neopythes are good for providing unit count for Cult Ambush and acting as shotgun Guardsmen (You trade 1 (please do not swear) shot at 24" for scarier overwatch, IMHO totally worth it). LC and 2 GLaunchers also should give decent fire output (or go with Mortar team, that is fine too). |
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Post by oatmello on Dec 22, 2017 19:58:13 GMT
Thank you for your input. Yeah I get that a lot of stuff in the tyranids army can do things better than GSC, ie devilgaunts, genestealers, ect.. but I'd just like to find a place for GSC. Would it be more ideal to put neophytes in goliaths with GL and/or mining lasers?
Also how do you keep your vanguard detachment cheap while still having decent output?
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Post by cypheon on Dec 22, 2017 21:18:35 GMT
Neophytes perform better as starting on the table. 2x special weapons (i lean towards grenade launchers for the range) and 2x seismic cannons or mining lasers in each 10man squad gives you a lot of reach. With nid monsters being on everyones hit list lately, the neos will even still be there when it's your turn!
Use your 50% reserves on units that don't have a built in "get bent" chance when they arrive, like trygon taxies or militarum tempestus.
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Post by localcultist on Dec 22, 2017 22:21:43 GMT
Thank you for your input. Yeah I get that a lot of stuff in the tyranids army can do things better than GSC, ie devilgaunts, genestealers, ect.. but I'd just like to find a place for GSC. Would it be more ideal to put neophytes in goliaths with GL and/or mining lasers? Also how do you keep your vanguard detachment cheap while still having decent output? Problem I have with mining weapons (pair) vs HWT: Lascannon 20 - 48" S9 AP-3 Dd6 Mining laser 14 (28) - 24" S9 AP-3 Dd6 You pay almost 150% for shorter range and 0,5 extra "average" shot (3,5 on D6 vs 2x2 on 2D3) with 2 ML vs LC. Seismic cannon 17 (34) - "Long" Wave - Hv4 24" S3 (really?) AP0 D1 with "rending" "Too short" Wave - Hv2 12" S6 AP-1 D2 Grenade Launcher 5 (10) - Frag - AsD6 24" S3 AP0 D1 (not HVT weapon, whatevs)Krak - As1 24" S6 AP -1 Dd3 Missile Launcher 20 - Frag - D6 48" S4 AP0 D1 Krak - 48" S8 AP-2 Dd6 Seismic cannon is just garbage compared to GLauncher and even (subpar, actually) MLauncher. With slightly lucky damage/shots roll Grenade launcher can almost perform as good as Seismic Cannon, for less than third of the points. So, Glaunchers and Lascannons (or Mortars, they are AMAZING for 5 points) for days. Maybe if they are cheaper or Assault in Codex. |
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Post by Hive Bahamut on Dec 23, 2017 0:52:32 GMT
For sake of being useful:
10 with Shotguns and Flamers are decent overwatchers.
10 with 2 GL and a Mortar is going to harass something all game, while staying cheap.
10 with no upgrades can protect a Magus quite well with Unquestioning.
Skip the Mining Weapons, they are literally trash now. If you want a Mining Laser suck it up and pay the extra 5 points for a real Laser. 48" is useful, 24" on a Heavy D3 instead of D6? D'oh.
Neopyhtes actually flipped transports this edition. Open topped is where you want them if anywhere. Which is probably a good mix with the autocannon not wanting to move either. I hate Autocannons in 8th.
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Post by kazetanade on Dec 23, 2017 1:34:29 GMT
For sake of being useful: 10 with Shotguns and Flamers are decent overwatchers. 10 with 2 GL and a Mortar is going to harass something all game, while staying cheap. 10 with no upgrades can protect a Magus quite well with Unquestioning. Skip the Mining Weapons, they are literally trash now. If you want a Mining Laser suck it up and pay the extra 5 points for a real Laser. 48" is useful, 24" on a Heavy D3 instead of D6? D'oh. Neopyhtes actually flipped transports this edition. Open topped is where you want them if anywhere. Which is probably a good mix with the autocannon not wanting to move either. I hate Autocannons in 8th. If i play Neophytes I'm deepstriking them, so the Mining Lasers are my pick. Everything is the same except for cost and range. GL over flamers most time. I have almost never gotten to use flamers. I hate the transports. That stupid transport with the autocannon that costs too damn much and dies to a stiff breeze. |
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Post by cypheon on Dec 23, 2017 1:51:40 GMT
Chapter approved is a thing now... seismic cannons are 10pts each, not 17.
10 guys with 2x gl, 2x sc are only 80pts. When your real goal is to run all three armies in one list, <400pts for 3 cp and access to mass hypnosis is not a bad "tax" for rolling out artillery tanks to support a kraken GS rush.
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Post by oatmello on Dec 23, 2017 2:07:15 GMT
Yeah I was looking under 500 but less than 400 is better! I know I could always do magus supreme command but I don't want to be cheese, even with smite nerfed mind control can be pretty beastly depending how you use it, and mass hypnosis to help me not eat tau supporting fire yes please. I think I'll probably go two magus (lil cheese don't hurt) and one group shotgun/flamers, and the others GL with a mortar while the other a lascannon . Transports really up the cost for what I'm looking for, but thanks guys!
Keeping them that cheap you think the neos could be objective holders if need be?
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Post by kazetanade on Dec 23, 2017 4:14:15 GMT
Neos are one of the best objective holders around. 20 bodies for 100 points that deepstrike anywhere. Give them 2 GL and 2 SC or ML for additional 10+ 20/ 30 for an objective holder unit plopped down for a noticeable amount of guns. Or run them empty to keep it at 100 and charge. They clogg up space real good.
Just dont do it when you're trying to charge the enemy at the same time.
Thing is though rippers are a thing. Cheaper, same number of wounds for toughness. More attacks in combat although no shooting. But as an objective sitter only its not like you care.
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Post by localcultist on Dec 23, 2017 10:37:08 GMT
Chapter approved is a thing now... seismic cannons are 10pts each, not 17. 10 guys with 2x gl, 2x sc are only 80pts. When your real goal is to run all three armies in one list, <400pts for 3 cp and access to mass hypnosis is not a bad "tax" for rolling out artillery tanks to support a kraken GS rush. That's reasonable, 20 points puts them on (non)equal footing against grossly inefficient ML (and very efficient LC). Also shows up how original pricing was bollocks. Now do Mining Laser (IMHO it should be 8-10 points to compete with LC)! |
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Post by kazetanade on Dec 24, 2017 18:50:28 GMT
Chapter approved is a thing now... seismic cannons are 10pts each, not 17. 10 guys with 2x gl, 2x sc are only 80pts. When your real goal is to run all three armies in one list, <400pts for 3 cp and access to mass hypnosis is not a bad "tax" for rolling out artillery tanks to support a kraken GS rush. That's reasonable, 20 points puts them on (non)equal footing against grossly inefficient ML (and very efficient LC). Also shows up how original pricing was bollocks. Now do Mining Laser (IMHO it should be 8-10 points to compete with LC)! It's 15 points for a 24" LC. The normal LC costs 25, and the AM version costs 20. It's already appropriately priced. 10 points would not be broken, but it would not be priced correctly. |
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Post by localcultist on Dec 24, 2017 19:16:56 GMT
That's reasonable, 20 points puts them on (non)equal footing against grossly inefficient ML (and very efficient LC). Also shows up how original pricing was bollocks. Now do Mining Laser (IMHO it should be 8-10 points to compete with LC)! It's 15 points for a 24" LC. The normal LC costs 25, and the AM version costs 20. It's already appropriately priced. 10 points would not be broken, but it would not be priced correctly. It's half range AND half damage (D3 instead of D6). Tho one could argue 2d3 give better odds than single d6... IMHO same price for LC and 2 ML is fair - shorter range but slightly better damage. |
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. Nids or purestrains do melee way better than acolytes. 
