|
Post by kazetanade on Dec 24, 2017 19:28:52 GMT
Hm? I could have sworn it was d6. Have i been remembering it wrong or did it change from index? I thought CA only had points changes.
|
|
|
Post by localcultist on Dec 24, 2017 19:47:09 GMT
Hm? I could have sworn it was d6. Have i been remembering it wrong or did it change from index? I thought CA only had points changes. Only points and additional strats/army rules in CA, no actual profiles. I guess it's waiting for Codex (unless CA 18 hits first?), tho those extra 8 points aren't that bad, especially if You don't care about range (again, slightly higher damage output and more reliable shooting because law of large numbers is a thing).
|
|
|
Post by tomcaet on Dec 25, 2017 11:26:51 GMT
There's also the Heavy Mining Laser that could get caught in the corner of the eye, which does have D6 damage, but also 36" range.
|
|
|
Post by cypheon on Dec 25, 2017 14:12:52 GMT
There's also the Heavy Mining Laser that could get caught in the corner of the eye, which does have D6 damage, but also 36" range. Which is not infantry-portable, sadly
|
|
|
Post by dangsc on Dec 26, 2017 10:11:36 GMT
The only roles I have found for neos are Magus bodyguard and cheap CP tax. E.g. if you fancy running 2 magi, take 2 neo units to hide them and soak some wounds, and you might as well take 1 more min neo unit to get the 3CP bonus. If you actually want troops like that to do something, AM guardsmen are cheaper and get access to orders, i.e. much better. I started out running ML/GL neos in Trucks (massively overpriced Taurox) at the start of 8th and they are so bad it's not even funny. Now that we are fighting Codex armies you can forget about it.
The one thing GSC do well, especially now with the Meticulous Uprising stratagem, is drop units with very high damage output in melee directly out of reserves. The best units for that are Hammer Aberrants or Purestrains with a Primus backing them. Rock Drill Acolytes can do it as well if you really need troops, but Hammer Aberrants are a better choice, especially since they got a 20% points drop in Chapter Approved.
For everything else, take allies.
|
|
|
Post by No One on Dec 26, 2017 14:32:53 GMT
The only roles I have found for neos are Magus bodyguard and cheap CP tax. E.g. if you fancy running 2 magi, take 2 neo units to hide them and soak some wounds, and you might as well take 1 more min neo unit to get the 3CP bonus. If you actually want troops like that to do something, AM guardsmen are cheaper and get access to orders, i.e. much better. I started out running ML/GL neos in Trucks (massively overpriced Taurox) at the start of 8th and they are so bad it's not even funny. Now that we are fighting Codex armies you can forget about it. I wouldn't sell them off: while I don't have the models to run neo heavy, I've been finding a 20 odd squad using CA to actually be fairly helpful, though I haven't tried it much. Basically cheaper gargs, that're also troops. Back field...yeah, worse guardsmen. Only do it for detachments (i.e. if you need to fill a battalion/don't have enough dets for guard). Saws are now less than half the price of drills (and they aren't even much worse due to AP-4 Dam 2 compared to AP-3 Dam 1). Saws are now the only heavy mining weapon worthy of consideration. Meticulous Uprising makes units actually viable as single/doubles (read: basically everything bar metas) - they can all do different things to varying extents (i.e. anti-tank, anti-infantry, lots of bodies to touch/wrap/give board control etc). How helpful those things are...well, different question. Also doesn't solve any issues running mono, but works great as allies.
|
|
|
Post by kazetanade on Dec 26, 2017 15:04:39 GMT
I guess there are considerations as allies i should reconsider. I still have a "GSC is a lame duck not worth considering" mindset i should probably get rid of.
Rock Saws are 10 pts now? So having a A2 S8 WS3+ ap-4 2dam? 21 pts per model? I guess that's okay tbh. Ignoring tankability since we expect them all to die. I think not enough attacks per model personally, i really want at least 3.
|
|
|
Post by No One on Dec 26, 2017 15:15:09 GMT
I guess there are considerations as allies i should reconsider. I still have a "GSC is a lame duck not worth considering" mindset i should probably get rid of. Yeah. I mean, a large part of the issue is 'reliability'. Meticulous gives you a whole heap of reliability: it just only works for 1 unit per turn, thus is terrible for a whole army. But as a nasty DS threat with allies? Definite potential. Dropped to 14 pts in CA. Drill is 30...they all really needed a drop, I've got no idea why they felt that only the drill needed a price drop - cutters were terrible due to the -1 to hit that got lumped with, and it's basically on par with the drill due to the price discrepancy. I think the only major issue with it now is the chasis price: 11 pts is just too much for T3 5+. Though yeah, only 2A base for it still stings, but taking a big blob with Primus (and big blob, banner becomes worth it) for 2+ rerolling 1s? I'd prefer hammerrants for dedicated vehicle whacking, but acolytes may have a spot as a 'jack of all, master of none': bodies to lock or wrap vehicles, attacks to take on infantry, saws for knocking some wounds off a vehicle, and ob sec for objectives while you're there. Just worse at one of the above than neos/purestrains/habberrants. Though I think purestrains are going to be better for most/enough of those to be worthwhile over acolytes: I just need to figure some way to fit them in, since I'm currently running out of pts/space trying to take a battalion. Maybe instead of habberrants...anyway.
|
|
|
Post by oatmello on Dec 26, 2017 16:56:42 GMT
You can run a GSC battalion if you do 2 magus and 3 neophyte squads of 10 with 2GL and 1 mortar for 341 pts. Then you could just add purestrains or habberants? For probably less than 500 pts
|
|
|
Post by dangsc on Dec 27, 2017 9:46:49 GMT
I wouldn't sell them off: while I don't have the models to run neo heavy, I've been finding a 20 odd squad using CA to actually be fairly helpful, though I haven't tried it much. Basically cheaper gargs, that're also troops. Good point. I usually have other units I'd prefer to CA and don't have enough slots to reserve the neos though. This comment prompted me to update my damage output spreadsheet, and I see you're absolutely right. Even though Drills are average damage 2.78 (due to the mortal wound bingo effect they have), the point drop on Saws makes them more points efficient than drills on T7/3+ - actually more efficient than Habberrants (but with a much bigger DS footprint). I'll definitely have to try them out.
|
|
|
Post by kazetanade on Dec 27, 2017 10:11:01 GMT
There go Habberrants. AGAIN.
This army is such an issue for GW to fix. Make 1 thing better, makes everything else obsolete.
|
|
|
Post by dangsc on Dec 27, 2017 10:47:38 GMT
There go Habberrants. AGAIN. This army is such an issue for GW to fix. Make 1 thing better, makes everything else obsolete. The difference in damage/point between the units is not massive and it doesn't take other factors into account. Haberrants are still worth taking IMO. The one thing that might kill them is the fact they are so (please do not swear) difficult to buy compared to Saw Acos. I was looking at getting some more Aberrants on Ebay the other day and they were going for about 3 times what I paid for mine 9 months ago.
|
|
|
Post by Hive Bahamut on Dec 27, 2017 22:34:22 GMT
Having just finished up another 2000 GSC game last night I'm certain that it isn't my tactical stupidity. This army is in a BAD spot. I played against Primaris Templars, mech'ed up. Killed 3 models by turn 3, with another 2 units going before I got tabled turn 5. Was ahead on points until turn 4 as well.
I tried the G. Launchers for the first time in addition to the Mortar. The way those guys drop? 15 is about all I'll keep spending on the squad, and combined with a grenade toss here and there equals a fair amount of S3/S4 shots.
Autopistols (rememberd to use finally) killed a Terminator in combat somehow. 1 point for CA/pistol? Ok that's fair..
I never got a chance to use the RttS (burnt through 10CP in 2 turns) and have a feeling that is going to be the case moving forward. At least the option is there.
The boosted CA is a godsend, and makes the army at least operational again. Without that single rule GSC IS just watered down Nids/Guard. At least some flexibility is back.
Relic on the Banner guy? Thanks GW.. Didn't even take a Relic. Waste of time, HQ already most contested slot, don't need another.
Warlord Trait is garbage too, I ended up using Tenacious to save my Bacon to capture Priority objective with WL. Literally never would have come up having mooks heroically intervene. I can't imagine many scenarios it does, that didn't involve you putting your WL in a stupid spot.
Looks like it's time to cut off all my flamers and put launchers back on.
|
|
|
Post by c4790m on Dec 27, 2017 23:46:03 GMT
I’m struggling to see the merits of pure GSC right now, but as supplementary to a tyranid force they seem pretty good for reliably delivering anti-tank melee. I like taking either a supreme command (magus/magus/primus/elite of choice) or batallion (magus/primus/big acolyte squad/neophyte/neophyte) to shore up my nid’s anti tank. Also opens up access to taking a bare bones IG det to get access to that juicy Kurov’s Aquila
|
|
|
Post by Hive Bahamut on Dec 28, 2017 0:14:27 GMT
It's almost as if they WERE GOING to put effort in, but then someone said "why don't we make guard proper allies?" And the rest is history.
GSC is as broken as a domesticated roid junkie. No armies require allies in 8th, even though soup is readily available, many lists I see are still purist.
GSC, Talons of the Emperor and Ynnari seem like the 3 hobble along factions atm.
|
|