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Post by hiveminded on Dec 3, 2017 1:35:53 GMT
So I tried out the infestation nodes for the first time on Friday night and all eight were removed from the board in the first turn, depriving me of two units of 10 Genestealers. That left me with 1260pts. I lost, but mainly due to me staggering around bellowing like an idiot. My Tyrant, for example, destroyed three Dark Eldar flyers. Heck, my Venomthropes did a number on them. Note that you can only have a max of four infestation nodes, regardless of whether you bring more than one unit of genestealers.
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Post by malkyn76 on Dec 3, 2017 2:23:44 GMT
As of tonight, I've played 10 games with the new codex and am coming in with a record of 8 wins, 1 loss, and 1 draw. We're strong. But as many others have said, a lot of us have stuck with the army even when it was bottom of the barrel and all those dirty tricks, tactics, and strategies to try to remain on an even keel have stuck. So now we find ourselves using the same tactics but with more tools at our disposal. I find I don't feel intimidated by armies that I used to in the past, but still approach each game with a healthy dose of apprehension and wariness.
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Post by nurglitch on Dec 3, 2017 3:35:41 GMT
So I tried out the infestation nodes for the first time on Friday night and all eight were removed from the board in the first turn, depriving me of two units of 10 Genestealers. That left me with 1260pts. I lost, but mainly due to me staggering around bellowing like an idiot. My Tyrant, for example, destroyed three Dark Eldar flyers. Heck, my Venomthropes did a number on them. Note that you can only have a max of four infestation nodes, regardless of whether you bring more than one unit of genestealers. Noted
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Post by lordhikaru on Dec 3, 2017 5:01:26 GMT
also good to know that Blood Angels are coming, and they have alot of first turn charge options as well with plenty of attacks. Their shooting is soso, but their ability to get up an opponent grill fast and furious is something that we gonna have to factor as well.
They have plenty of strategems, power and abilities that allow them to reroll charge, add attacks and add movement. It probably wont break tyranids, but it will at least make us reconsider our actual strength to hold the board. currently we have free reign.
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Post by jesses on Dec 3, 2017 6:21:49 GMT
I have been worried about this as well, although I suffered my first loss with the new Codex versus Catachan IG today. So that made me feel loads better. I was starting to think we were way OP. I'm genuinely hoping for a couple more losses (I am 9W 1L since the Codex dropped against very good players) to prove to myself that it just took awhile for people to learn how to deal with our ridiculous alpha-strike capability.
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Post by cypheon on Dec 3, 2017 6:42:42 GMT
So I tried out the infestation nodes for the first time on Friday night and all eight were removed from the board in the first turn, depriving me of two units of 10 Genestealers. That left me with 1260pts. I lost, but mainly due to me staggering around bellowing like an idiot. My Tyrant, for example, destroyed three Dark Eldar flyers. Heck, my Venomthropes did a number on them. Nodes are both a blessing, and a trap. You really only need one gs unit in them to lictor-port, every unit beyond that is just slowing down since lictor port is not spammable in one turn. Next time try keeping just one noded gs unit, a neurothrope on the node pile, and the other gs 17" away from the neuros. That blocks all ds near your node, lets you move one gs unit ahead, and then lictor port a second into the front lines immediately.
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Post by hiveoverall on Dec 3, 2017 9:06:32 GMT
I have been worried about this as well, although I suffered my first loss with the new Codex versus Catachan IG today. So that made me feel loads better. I was starting to think we were way OP. I'm genuinely hoping for a couple more losses (I am 9W 1L since the Codex dropped against very good players) to prove to myself that it just took awhile for people to learn how to deal with our ridiculous alpha-strike capability. Catachans are really good, imho it is harder for nids to deal with them than with Cadians as cadians tend to sacrifice their movement to shoot better (they are more predictable in this regard). As for alpha strikes, I don’t think nids are better than imperial guard with plasma scions or than eldar with webway portals and fire dragons. alpha strikes are easy to deal with, just get scouts or a few bubble wrap units. Bullgryns and CC wraithlords (wi5 nonexpensive canon on it) will also make many nids reconsider their alpha strike. But no one I know plays these units much cause... well I dunno really. They fear they will lose too much shooting capacity I guess ?
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Post by harleyxjguy on Dec 3, 2017 13:26:10 GMT
If anything, it feels barely able to approach a top tier army, more like tier 2. Your opponents perhaps lack tactical depth and just don't know how to face a fast melee army and are probably used to making gun lines or relying on simple one two combos (deepstrike then warp time for example) which we have a block for. Give it time I am not mad and actually give props for this troll attempt. Tyranid codex not top tier? Maybe not the best Codex? Even this I question. Anyhow, well played Sir.
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Post by luke1705 on Dec 3, 2017 15:03:15 GMT
If anything, it feels barely able to approach a top tier army, more like tier 2. Your opponents perhaps lack tactical depth and just don't know how to face a fast melee army and are probably used to making gun lines or relying on simple one two combos (deepstrike then warp time for example) which we have a block for. Give it time I am not mad and actually give props for this troll attempt. Tyranid codex not top tier? Maybe not the best Codex? Even this I question. Anyhow, well played Sir. Bigpig is actually a very good tournament player. I haven’t played against enough top tier competition to either agree or disagree with his assessment, but his is a concern that I too share. When I built my competitive Tyranids list, my goal was to be able to beat competitive IG, which I believe it can do, having proven itself twice against a reasonably competitive IG list and a good player. But I’m still untested against a truly good CSM list, or a ruthlessly optimized IG army. Without knowing how my army fares against lists like that, I can’t say that it is able to beat top tier tournament armies. I feel way way better about where we are now than where we were previously, and I do think that we will re-shape the meta in some ways. But I also am not ready to call our codex as strong as CSM, which define the tournament meta.
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Post by kazetanade on Dec 3, 2017 16:13:57 GMT
If anything, it feels barely able to approach a top tier army, more like tier 2. Your opponents perhaps lack tactical depth and just don't know how to face a fast melee army and are probably used to making gun lines or relying on simple one two combos (deepstrike then warp time for example) which we have a block for. Give it time I am not mad and actually give props for this troll attempt. Tyranid codex not top tier? Maybe not the best Codex? Even this I question. Anyhow, well played Sir. Unless you are placing top 10 in every major ITC event in your country, you do NOT have the right to call bigpig a troll. He is an extremely experienced tournament player and is likely many times better a tyranid player than you or me. The Trapdoor Spider which i base most of my list concepts on is first propagated by this fine gentleman, if i recall right. The nid codex is NOT a tier 1 codex. Its about the same as the other codexes but the base strength and in particular the returning unit strategems are far below CSM equivalents. But it is a decently strong tier 2.
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Post by Iryan on Dec 3, 2017 17:38:16 GMT
I feel like one has to distinguish here between the ranking of the potential absolute best army build you can do for each army (i.e. what you would see in a high-stakes tournament) and the comparative powerlevel of what your average player of each army is going to be doing.
It is certainly possible that the tyranid codex is tier 2 in the first category while appearing rather powerful in the second category. And the second category is also where the argument of "tyranids are doing well now because the players' skills have been honed by years of playing with underpowered stuff" would be the most relevant.
While there are some things in our codex that seem too brutal to use in a friendly beer and pretzels game, I am pretty sure the same applies to most armies, and definitely all codex armies. But then again I am still a very inexperienced player so I am not one to judge.
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Post by bigpig on Dec 3, 2017 19:19:59 GMT
If anything, it feels barely able to approach a top tier army, more like tier 2. Your opponents perhaps lack tactical depth and just don't know how to face a fast melee army and are probably used to making gun lines or relying on simple one two combos (deepstrike then warp time for example) which we have a block for. Give it time I am not mad and actually give props for this troll attempt. Tyranid codex not top tier? Maybe not the best Codex? Even this I question. Anyhow, well played Sir. That wasn't a troll, just a direct answer to the OPs question. Pretending, however, to take the moral high road while, at the same time, giving a condescending pat on the head IS trolling. For what its worth, I've been playing nids and on this page for over 10 years. I'm currently the ITC number 1 ranked West coast US nid player and (if that darn TO from the last event finally submits the scores) I'll be the #1 overall nid player with 353pts. Now, that really doesn't mean anything other than I've played against a lot of great players and have experience beyond big fish/small pond. It does, however, give me some perspective on where nids fit right now and the bigger meta. That is not to discount your experience because, even though you've only been here since 6 days after the latest codex release, I'm sure you bring plenty to the table Again to the OP, our army has strong fast melee. We have pyschic counters that can shut down some of the real game turning combos like. We have decent, but not tier 1, shooting. These make for a solid army, and, more importantly right now... they challenge the standard mindset. My point to the OP is that his experience is that his opponents cannot stop him and his army feels overpowered. If his opponents cannot see how to stop him, then they either lack the proper models to field, are in a rock paper scissors matchup with him, or more likely are stuck in a way of playing and don't yet have the tactical depth or experience against the army to see how to stop him. The current tier 1 armies (Chaos soup and IG) have solid counters to our top builds. Try not going first against an infiltrating AL cultist blob and an IG blob and see how far our deepstriking or Swarmlord slingshot shenanigans get us, for example. Their inability to win does not say we are top tier, it says either the OP is really good (and should slow his roll or handicap himself to keep opponents willing to play against him) or his opponents just haven't figure it out yet... but they will. This is a solid dex, and in the hands of good players can win tournaments, but it is not a tier 1 easy button army
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Post by gigasnail on Dec 3, 2017 20:30:17 GMT
bigpig's a class act. to answer the OP: i haven't got to play with the new codex yet, but i have to agree with bigpig (at least in principle). i see a lot of stuff that looks really good. it's a strong book. i do not see anything unstoppable or OP. this is a good thing.
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Post by Whisper on Dec 4, 2017 2:02:19 GMT
With Blood Angels coming out fast and hard next weekend, I think we're gonna have a serious challenge in the Combat phase. They're also a legit challenge for Board Control. They're rather quick and zippy with all those jump packs, plus a Strategem that lets them just be anywhere on the board whenever they want.
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Post by hiveminded on Dec 4, 2017 2:24:26 GMT
Yeah, BA look like they'll be strong in close combat. There will be other codexes that come out that will also be very strong in close combat (harlequins come to mind).
In the end, after all the codexes drop, I expect the Nids will be strong in every phase of the game but not the best in any.
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