Codex: Adeptus Astartes

[keening]

Hope it's OK to talk about this here, not really a Vs discussion but more a reaction to the new Codex.

I really enjoyed it. I don't feel the Stratagems, Warlord Traits, Relics or new psychic powers are outrageous and on the whole have been done well. Obviously some are better than others but I'm not envisaging an auto-lose against most Marine players...

I don't really play the Marine models I own so wasn't looking for any specific chapter's rules hoping for something good - maybe others could point out interesting points about individual armies?

One thing I did notice is 1CP for a Thunderfire Cannon to halve a target unit's movement and advance if hit. Would definitely be annoying and could potentially scupper your whole strategy, especially as the Thunderfire cannon doesn't need to see a target, could be in a re-roll aura and has 60" range. 

Thoughts?

[No One]

keening said:

Hope it's OK to talk about this here

Well, I mean "Other GW stuff" would probably be a better place to discuss marines than nid board .

But as to your post...yeah. I mean, haven't played with or against, but having a brief look at leaks, it looks pretty decent. Nothing jumped out at me as 'oh what the actual heck where you thinking', most seemed fairly reasonable. Some of the CT/stratagems might be a bit too good (Raven Guard...that thunderfire one sounds pretty good against almost everything, especially brutal against armies that rely on high movement for key units, like us), and Ultramarines are likely to be annoying to play against as a cc army (not crazy strong or anything, just annoying). But on the whole, pretty decent.

Now, the far more important question - can they keep that level? Because SM were in a pretty good spot, and just got handed a bunch of good free buffs. As long as the other Codices come out in a reasonable time frame, and have similar level free buffs (not better and not worse - both are important), all is fine. But if they don't...well then, not so good.

[keening]

There are also LOTS of points changes. What jumped out at me:

Drop pods 10 points cheaper
Inceptors 15 points cheaper 
Attack Bikes 10 points cheaper 
Centurion Assault Squad 20 points cheaper 
Vindicator 25 points cheaper

Centurion Devastator 15 points more expensive 
Thunderfire 17 points more expensive but gains AP-1

I like the fact that they are tinkering but I have to get used to it and feel like I can't go out and buy something with any confidence of how competitive it will be in the future. 

[Bellator]

The entire point of the new point system is to try and keep everything good. I would buy what you want and not worry so much about if it will be competitive later.

[malkyn76]

Why does everything have to based around its competitive value? Just get whatever you think is pretty awesome, what you don't have already, and have fun with it. I've found that many of the units that people here say are horrible or not worth it have a tendency to work well with a little creative thinking.

As to the marine codex, I'll be playing against an army using it later today. Should be interesting.

[kazetanade]

Jul 30, 2017 13:58:11 GMT malkyn76 said:

Why does everything have to based around its competitive value? Just get whatever you think is pretty awesome, what you don't have already, and have fun with it. I've found that many of the units that people here say are horrible or not worth it have a tendency to work well with a little creative thinking.

As to the marine codex, I'll be playing against an army using it later today. Should be interesting.

context is important, so what works well for me and you in the basegame or beer games with "creative thinking" may not work so good in the ITC or ETC or ATC or whatever. 

But what tends to work well in the ITC ETC ATC or whatever tends to work ok no matter where you bring it in the world.

[gigasnail]

Jul 30, 2017 13:58:11 GMT malkyn76 said:

Why does everything have to based around its competitive value? Just get whatever you think is pretty awesome, what you don't have already, and have fun with it. I've found that many of the units that people here say are horrible or not worth it have a tendency to work well with a little creative thinking.

Yeah, if you're in a casual environment anything goes, work out, play and have fun.

Not everyone is in a casual environment.

[Iryan]

When I was at the store yesterday, one of the players there was browsing the codex and said that the leader of the white scars has no option to take a bike. Now that is an amusing oversight (and will probably get errata'd soon enough, I imagine).

Also, yeah, the fact that they are immediately changing some of the points values means they are, in fact, evaluating the power levels of various things and making adjustments reasonably quickly. Assuming they keep doing this, all units should become viable in a semi-competitive environment in the long run. Unless they make really bad decisions where they keep over-nerfing or over-buffing stuff... which I admit, is a possibility.

[keening]

I'm by no means super competitive. I just have less time to build and paint these days so I like to know what I'm buying. I guess I'll never get around to finishing my Flying HTs with FW twin Devourers.

Back to the SM Codex: when I saw The Shield Eternal I thought 1CP for half damage was pretty powerful but I guess Genestealers eat them just the same and your opponent knows and can plan accordingly.

[gigasnail]

Jul 30, 2017 14:56:14 GMT Iryan said:

When I was at the store yesterday, one of the players there was browsing the codex and said that the leader of the white scars has no option to take a bike. Now that is an amusing oversight (and will probably get errata'd soon enough, I imagine).

Also, yeah, the fact that they are immediately changing some of the points values means they are, in fact, evaluating the power levels of various things and making adjustments reasonably quickly. Assuming they keep doing this, all units should become viable in a semi-competitive environment in the long run. Unless they make really bad decisions where they keep over-nerfing or over-buffing stuff... which I admit, is a possibility.

Khan on a bike has no model. They're slowly winnowing away units and options they dont make the models for.

[Jbizzy]

^^^

Fear that shrikes will go is real...

[gigasnail]

The wings biomorph have been gone for a long time. Shrikes are just warriors with a different statline.

[keening]

Hopefully the realisation that they can keep Shrike rules and still sell Warriors, Vargheists, Gargoyles etc. should be enough...

[Jbizzy]

You're right, I'm so used to seeing conversion with wings.

They could have gas pooting jump pack biomorphs...

[valdyr]

One of the big things no one is talking about is the new "Defenders of Humanity" rule.

In a Battleforged SM detachment all Troops control an objective as long as at least 1 model from the unit is within the required distance unless the enemy unit also has this rule. Objective Secured is back for SM only.

In addition all the Warlord traits are just better than the BRB traits. +1 atk comes with reroll failed charges, 6+ chance to ignore wounds comes with +1 wound, +1 ld for morale within 6" becomes auto pass morale.

Its cool to see the updates but until everyone gets a new book theres going to be a big have vs have not issue