psychic brotherhood and their dice pool

[iyama]

Hello hive

I've been writing lists lately for a privately arranged event at warhammer world next week and at the moment I don't have my rule book on me.
I cannot remember if a psychic brotherhood with a mastery of level 2 made of 3 models counts as 2 dice for the unit, or 2 per model so would =6?
If anyone could let me know I'd appreciate it as I'm having to write lots of 750 point lists which I hate doing and the only list I really liked the organiser banned me from fielding.

[xtztxtxz]

Units with the Brotherhood of Psykers rule effectively count as a single psyker. So a brood of Zoanthropes at mastery level 2 will always generate 2 warp charges, regardless if there's 1 model or 6 models in the unit. They just get a special rule to fire extra shots from Warp Blast when they manifest that power.

I wouldn't be surprised if it changes in future though. The new Eldar codex (who else?) has a special rule to allow Warlock brotherhoods to generate 1 charge per model.

[tylertt]

If we got two dice per model it would actually make Zoanthropes somewhat appealing. I've seen some people have success with a few broods of three. It seems you need to go all in with them.

[mattblowers]

I can't make zoans work. Offensive powers are too hard to pull off and our buffs just aren't worth the investment in the unit. At least Eldar warlocks can roll on a range of powers and can still hit hard if they get stuck in combat.

[tarrasque]

I find our buffs are well worth it. The issue I have with Zoanthropes is they bring so little to the table. A chance at a good buff and a warp lance that might work? Meh. All they have going for them is that fantastic invulnerable save. Still, the new kit is nice.

[iyama]

Yea I agree with a lot of posters, I don't care for the psychic phase as a whole, I feel we loose out on a lot of our old attacks seeing as its now so easy for a lot of our stuff to be deny the witch rolled. I find that say I have a hive tyrant, a brood of zoanthropes a Tervigon and a maleceptor, that's 6-7 plus d6, what do you commit those dice two when its a 4-5 to stop the attacks with DtW? I usually forget to use the maleceptor entirely due to this, I just wish every psyched could do their attacks again as the management is difficult for me personally.

[krakentendrilswarm]

Zoanthropes are an unbelievably inconsistent unit. The random power generation just doesn't work for me on a unit as slow and fragile as a Zoanthrope. If they get lucky and roll Catalyst or Onslaught then you can buff a unit a turn fairly reliably, but that's hardly guaranteed. Warp Lance is short-ranged and Zoanthropes are slow, so you are reliant on a good target coming in close and then winning the RNG lottery to get something out of your investment in points and Warp Charges (though if it *does* work, blowing up a Land Raider does feel pretty rewarding). Warp Blast is actually a little better in my opinion, but still nothing to write home about now that we can bring Exocrines. Most of the other powers are a bit dodgy in most circumstances.

I've experimented with full size broods with Neurothropes, broods of three (including Neurothrope) and a couple of individuals. The full size brood looked threatening (deployed by Spore) but just didn't do enough to warrant 400 points of investment. Broods of three give you Spirit Leech, but that's almost as RNG as Warp Lance.

Lately I've relegated Zoanthropes to one or two broods of a single model, for Synapse coverage, Warp Charge batteries for my Tyrants and another chance at Catalyst or Onslaught. That is, unfortunately, about all they bring to the table.

Beware individual broods though, as they (like Venomthropes) are First Blood magnets (though it is fun to watch an opponent shoot a few Lascannons at them, only for each to bounce off of the Warp Field and he either gives up or pours an unjust amount of firepower into it just to make it seem like the effort wasn't wasted!).

[mattblowers]

May 28, 2015 12:46:42 GMT tarrasque said:

I find our buffs are well worth it. The issue I have with Zoanthropes is they bring so little to the table.

Which is why I said the "buffs just aren't worth the investment in the unit". I guess I'm confused about what you mean when you are saying they are well worth and then say they are not worth it in the next sentence. Catalyst is good but really unreliable to get when you are rolling for only 1 power, but otherwise I'll pass. In funsies/fluffy games they are fine. They have little place in a maxed list.

[beefythepug]

uhhhh dang... I don't usually use these guys, but I had this rule wrong in my head. Now knowing we only get 2 dice per unit (regardless of models in unit) makes me want to use them even less.

[tarrasque]

May 28, 2015 14:04:19 GMT mattblowers said:

May 28, 2015 12:46:42 GMT tarrasque said:

I find our buffs are well worth it. The issue I have with Zoanthropes is they bring so little to the table.

Which is why I said the "buffs just aren't worth the investment in the unit". I guess I'm confused about what you mean when you are saying they are well worth and then say they are not worth it in the next sentence. Catalyst is good but really unreliable to get when you are rolling for only 1 power, but otherwise I'll pass. In funsies/fluffy games they are fine. They have little place in a maxed list.

Allow me to clarify then. I see our psychic powers as quite good. I see the Zoanthropes as a poor chassis for our powers. Even warp lance is better when cast from a flyrant due to the mobility, AND they have the devourers. Zoanthropes just don't bring anything other than a sluggish psychic node, with an invulnerable save.
The fact is, we have other conduits for our psychic powers, and they all* do it better., if simply because they serve other roles in addition to bringing psychic powers.
That's basically the point I was trying to make.


*note, "all" never should assume the inclusion of the Maleceptor.

[mattblowers]

Jun 4, 2015 15:05:19 GMT tarrasque said:

May 28, 2015 14:04:19 GMT mattblowers said:

Which is why I said the "buffs just aren't worth the investment in the unit". I guess I'm confused about what you mean when you are saying they are well worth and then say they are not worth it in the next sentence. Catalyst is good but really unreliable to get when you are rolling for only 1 power, but otherwise I'll pass. In funsies/fluffy games they are fine. They have little place in a maxed list.

Allow me to clarify then. I see our psychic powers as quite good. I see the Zoanthropes as a poor chassis for our powers. Even warp lance is better when cast from a flyrant due to the mobility, AND they have the devourers. Zoanthropes just don't bring anything other than a sluggish psychic node, with an invulnerable save.
The fact is, we have other conduits for our psychic powers, and they all* do it better., if simply because they serve other roles in addition to bringing psychic powers.
That's basically the point I was trying to make.


*note, "all" never should assume the inclusion of the Maleceptor.

Gotcha. That's much clearer. I thought you were saying the zoans were well worth it for the buffs they bring to the table and that was what had me confused.

[Anggul]

Yup, the psychic phase really needs more work.

I would rather it just went back to the pre-7th way, but if they must make things needlessly drawn out and awkward they could at least make it so brotherhood of psykers scales for everyone. Hopefully Warlocks getting it is a sign for everyone for the future. It's silly that you can have six Zoanthropes and they'll generate less charge than two that are classed game-wise as separate units.

[krakenfiend]

So here's a question about Zoanthropes that maybe you guys can answer:

Lets say I have a brood of Zoanthropes that has 4 models. When I role for powers, do I make a roll for each Zoanthrope or do I roll for the Unit and all the Zoanthropes get the same power?

krakenfiend

[drakiskier]

my regular marine/eldar opponent has stopped bothering to deny my warp lance... ive had three zoans in a brood, thrown six dice at it... only _BARELY_ gotten it off... and failed two of the three to hit rolls on threes... and the last one, i rolled a 1 for damage result.

i tried the '6 zoans in a pod' route once... failed to do anything signifigant with the warp lance.... and had my zoans assaulted and tanked the rest of the game unable to cast anything...

when my flyrant gets warp lance and he has a flyer, he doesnt bother denying or jinking... he knows it wont do anything.