|
Post by xtztxtxz on Apr 9, 2015 7:38:56 GMT
Honestly Tyranids need more changes to the BRB than the codex. The majority of underused / overcosted units are that way because assault is so heavily penalised in the core game rules.
There's all sorts of things GW could do to make our spiky bugs relevant again: relax restrictions on assaulting from reserve, change assault grenades to not be so essential, tweak Smash so our S6 bugs with loads of attacks can be a threat to armour again, make it so Fleet actually increases your threat range rather than average speed, etc...
I'd much rather see some of these than a new codex.
|
|
|
Post by doomreaper9 on Apr 9, 2015 8:11:00 GMT
I have the same point of u as you do. GW needs to balance the ratio of assault vs shooting.
|
|
|
Post by N.I.B. on Apr 9, 2015 10:01:45 GMT
After being steamrolled and completely controlled yesterday by the new Khorne, I want that for my Tyranids. Forget SitW, the psychic phase is a parenthesis in 7th ed anyway (except Tzeentch) - the big change needs to be something with the Synapse mechanism. Look at Khorne Blood Tithe. It's awesome, both very powerful and in character. That is what we need for nids. The Great Devourer is cometh. The Shadow in the Warp darkens. It doesn't end. It swallows. It grows stronger as it consumes. It can't be reasoned with. Build on that. The alien (Alien, even) locusts from deep space. No Fcuking Allies for us.
Tyranids more than anything needs identity/character as an army again. We lost adaptability and gained what, suicidal tendencies? New MCs so niched you can't field them unless you know what you'll be fighting, or just insultingly bad at everything?
I want Tyranids to be the scary close combat army I thought it was when I got into 40K.
The current codex is a mess of things that are just stupid, overcosted, or both. Fix it. If I would mention just one thing in the quagmire of stupid - FFS give Raveners cc biomorphs! Gah, there is so much, many good suggestions in this thread. Reverting inexplicable nerfs would be a good start. Like Scything Talons, wat? Swarmlord, lol? Hive Guard BS3, really? No Hive Tyrant 2+ save, Old Adversary destroyed, because reasons. Tyranid Prime, I don't even ...
And no other army is hit as hard from sweeping changes in the BRB (Fleet gone, assault from reserves gone, cover saves worse, Smash nerf, Vector Strike nerf, only CtA allies for Nids, etc) - compensate us for that. Not by taking away good stuff (Flyrants, Devourers) but by adding good options.
|
|
|
Post by Sensei on Apr 9, 2015 12:20:40 GMT
I've been away from the Hive for a while, and taking a break from Tyranids to focus more on my Dark Eldar. Saw this thread pop up though and it got my creative juices flowing. The following are a few things I would alter or include in a new codex, although I think the rumours of an impending new tyranid codex are very, very salty. Was still interesting to take a look at what I would do if I was in charge.
Instinctive Behaviour: Alter the rolls - 1 = negative effect, 2-5 = neutral effect, 6 = buff effect. I'd leave the results as they are except for Cannibalistic Hunger. That I would change to: If this result is rolled, elect one model in the unit. This model represents the weakest, slowest or most vulnerable model of the group and will be removed as a casualty as the rest of the unit turns and feeds on it. Further, the elected model must make a single CC attack against each other model within 2" of its base. This represents its limited capability to fight back. Attacks are made as normal and armour saves are allowed, however cover saves are not. Once these attacks have been resolved, the elected model is removed as a casualty. Monstrous Creatures treat this result as the "Devour" result.
Shadow in the Warp: An enemy unit or model within 12" of one or more models with the SITW rule attempting the manifest a psychic power will only successfully harness a warp charge on a roll of 5+ during their psychic test roll. Further, due to the dampening effects of SITW, an enemy unit or model within 12" of one or more models with the SITW special rule will only suffer from perils of the warp if 3 or more 6s are rolled.
Bio-enhanced Speed: Units entirely composed of Tyrant Guard, Hormagaunts, Rippers, Genestealers, Warriors, Shrikes, Lictors (including Deathleaper), Ravenors, Carnifex (including Old One Eye) and Trygons that do not include any Spinefists, Deathspitters, Basic Biocannons, or Monstrous Biocannons may Run and Charge in the same turn as they are not weighed down by bulky ranged weapons or symbiotic ammunition organisms.
Change Nature's Bane to Bane of Worlds: At the beginning of your movement phase, you may select any single piece of terrain, building or obstacle within 12" of your warlord. Roll a D6. On a roll of 1-3 the selected piece become difficult terrain. Models moving into, out of, through, over or standing on it treat it as difficult terrain for the rest of the game. On a roll of 4-6, the selected piece becomes dangerous terrain. Models moving into, out of, through, over or within 1" of the piece treat it as dangerous terrain for the remainder of the game.
Heightened Senses: The warlord and any models in the same unit as well as a single friendly unit within 12" of your warlord may benefit from one of the following each turn: +1 to Ballistic Skill, +1 Weapon Skill, or Night Vision. The effects last only until the end of your turn.
Mind Eater - As is but also add 1 VP for every character killed in challenge (Independent Char = 2, character = 1)
Digestive Denial - Once each turn, in addition to shooting any weapons, during the shooting phase your warlord may select a location on the battlefield. Place a large blast marker there. Until your warlords next shooting phase, the area under the blast marker is treated as dangerous terrain.
Adaptive Biology - Wounds inflicted on your warlord should be rolled one at a time. The first time a wound is inflicted on your warlord, they immediately gain Feel No Pain (6+). Each successful wound from then on immediately increases your warlords Feel No Pain roll by 1 to a maximum of a 3+ Feel No Pain roll.
Hive Tyrant: Access to Armoured Shell for 2+ save or Warp Field for 3+ Inv - Warp Field replaces a roll on the psychic table and is mutually exclusive with Armoured Shell. Indescribable Horror - Affects fearless models/units if leadership is beaten by 2 or more Hive Commander - Drop to 15 points
Swarmlord: Armour save to 2+ stock and Eternal Warrior. Access to Warp Field, which also replaces a roll on psychic table. Allow access to Thorax Biomorphs. Alien Cunning changed to allow +/- 1 to reserve rolls.
Tyrant Guard: Lower base points (maybe 40), access to flesh hooks.
Prime: Lower points to 100. Access to Basic Biocannons, and wings to change to jump infantry to join shrikes.
Warriors/Shrikes/Raveners - reduce all to 2 wounds, reduce base cost to 20 points. Would eliminate "Shrike" entry entirely and implement a wing upgrade for warriors at 6 points a model. Wings change warriors to Fast Attack and jump infantry. Allow raveners access to adrenal glands, toxin sacs and flesh hooks and make all biomorphs a consistent cost between the three. In order to differentiate Raveners from shrikes/jump infantry warriors, add Burrow: At the beginning of their movement phase a unit of raveners may elect to burrow instead of moving normally. Mark their place on the board and remove them from the battlefield. They may not shoot, run or assault, nor may they be the target of any kind of attack or assault until the beginning of their controlling players next turn. At the beginning of the movement phase after a unit of raveners has burrowed, place them back on the board, up to 12" away from where their marker was. They may not move any further in the movement phase, however they may shoot, run or assault (or both run and assault if subject to the Bio-enhanced speed rule) as normal.
Genestealers: Add Ambush Predators: Models with this special rule do not suffer the penalty to initiative when charging through difficult terrain. Further, models may assault the turn they arrive from reserve. However due to the nature of ambushes being fast, and coming from very close by, any assault from reserve may only have maximum range of 6". They must still roll 2D6 to determine charge range, but any result over 6 is only counted as 6".
Lictors: Add Ambush Predators as above. Also allow lictors to be taken in units of up to 3, but deployed independently.
Hive guard back to BS 4.
Biovores - spore mines cause pinning again.
That's all I've got at the moment. I know there are a few other issues with some of the weapons, but I can't figure out how best to tweak them right now.
|
|
|
Post by beltrajor on Apr 9, 2015 13:28:52 GMT
Tyranid prime: ANY unit joined by a t prime gets a ws/bs boost of +1 to a max of 6/4 ,100 points base, may join carnifex brood. Any walkrant (swarmie too) should be able to join fexes too ( ok, one can dream)
|
|
|
Post by rpricew on Apr 9, 2015 13:30:43 GMT
I don't think the rumours are true, just bunk. Really? Dominatrix, 1-3 as a TROOP CHOICE?!! Now for wishes, I would like my fleshborer gaunts to be like BS 2 or even 1, but cost like 2 or 3 points a mini. Make them glass cannons very weak and not strong. To me that would be a real swarm. Davor, I love the idea of making the swarm bigger, but I have run into a problem with this. I play in a LOT of tournaments and the problem with a Swarm is it takes a long time to play with. When the army takes 20 minutes to setup and you have to deal with that many models, it just makes it really hard to have an effective Tyranid Swarm army in that environment. I ran a 5 Tervigon list in 5th edition, so I know that it can be done, but a LOT of my games finished because I just took shortcuts and just didn't move some troops to speed things up. The most devastating lists that I've been able to come up with in 7th edition have all had over 200 models in them. But I can only play them in Beer and Pretzel games, and they take 4-5 hours. This is usually not very fun for my opponent who has 48 Marines on his side of the table and his turn takes 15 minutes and mine take 45.
|
|
|
Post by rpricew on Apr 9, 2015 13:43:55 GMT
After being steamrolled and completely controlled yesterday by the new Khorne, I want that for my Tyranids. Forget SitW, the psychic phase is a parenthesis in 7th ed anyway (except Tzeentch) - the big change needs to be something with the Synapse mechanism. Look at Khorne Blood Tithe. It's awesome, both very powerful and in character. That is what we need for nids. The Great Devourer is cometh. The Shadow in the Warp darkens. It doesn't end. It swallows. It grows stronger as it consumes. It can't be reasoned with. Build on that. The alien (Alien, even) locusts from deep space. No Fcuking Allies for us. Tyranids more than anything needs identity/character as an army again. We lost adaptability and gained what, suicidal tendencies? New MCs so niched you can't field them unless you know what you'll be fighting, or just insultingly bad at everything? I want Tyranids to be the scary close combat army I thought it was when I got into 40K. The current codex is a mess of things that are just stupid, overcosted, or both. Fix it. If I would mention just one thing in the quagmire of stupid - FFS give Raveners cc biomorphs! Gah, there is so much, many good suggestions in this thread. Reverting inexplicable nerfs would be a good start. Like Scything Talons, wat? Swarmlord, lol? Hive Guard BS3, really? No Hive Tyrant 2+ save, Old Adversary destroyed, because reasons. Tyranid Prime, I don't even ... And no other army is hit as hard from sweeping changes in the BRB (Fleet gone, assault from reserves gone, cover saves worse, Smash nerf, Vector Strike nerf, only CtA allies for Nids, etc) - compensate us for that. Not by taking away good stuff (Flyrants, Devourers) but by adding good options. This is by far my favorite post on the Tyranid Hive ever... You completely embodied everything that's wrong with our codex and nailed the changes needed. Are you sure you don't want to move to Nottingham and become a writer for GW (Tyranid Division)?
|
|
|
Post by Freeman on Apr 9, 2015 14:55:15 GMT
I'd settle for tyrannocytes dropping in points to around 50, Hive guard get BS4 back, and shadows being really useful. Either it should make every power an extra warp charge point or successes only be on a 5+.
Wish listing however I'd want Trygons to move like beasts. That would be boss mode.
|
|
|
Post by biomassbob on Apr 9, 2015 15:35:41 GMT
After being steamrolled and completely controlled yesterday by the new Khorne, I want that for my Tyranids. Forget SitW, the psychic phase is a parenthesis in 7th ed anyway (except Tzeentch) - the big change needs to be something with the Synapse mechanism. Look at Khorne Blood Tithe. It's awesome, both very powerful and in character. That is what we need for nids. The Great Devourer is cometh. The Shadow in the Warp darkens. It doesn't end. It swallows. It grows stronger as it consumes. It can't be reasoned with. Build on that. The alien (Alien, even) locusts from deep space. No Fcuking Allies for us. Tyranids more than anything needs identity/character as an army again. We lost adaptability and gained what, suicidal tendencies? New MCs so niched you can't field them unless you know what you'll be fighting, or just insultingly bad at everything? I want Tyranids to be the scary close combat army I thought it was when I got into 40K. The current codex is a mess of things that are just stupid, overcosted, or both. Fix it. If I would mention just one thing in the quagmire of stupid - FFS give Raveners cc biomorphs! Gah, there is so much, many good suggestions in this thread. Reverting inexplicable nerfs would be a good start. Like Scything Talons, wat? Swarmlord, lol? Hive Guard BS3, really? No Hive Tyrant 2+ save, Old Adversary destroyed, because reasons. Tyranid Prime, I don't even ... And no other army is hit as hard from sweeping changes in the BRB (Fleet gone, assault from reserves gone, cover saves worse, Smash nerf, Vector Strike nerf, only CtA allies for Nids, etc) - compensate us for that. Not by taking away good stuff (Flyrants, Devourers) but by adding good options. This ^^^ soooo much!!! I vote NIB take over from Kirby! There are so many things that could be done to help a bit here and there. Get rid of the stupid nerfs and have designers approach the army from how it should operate and what would make sense, work in game and fit the fluff. There just is so little sense to so many of GW rules or changes that affect nids and so little effort to address how nids would work in the game and new ruleset. The dex was another disgrace following the 5th ed nid dex garbage.
|
|
|
Post by biomassbob on Apr 9, 2015 15:39:25 GMT
Hey, ninja'd by Price!
And the dominatrix troop choice thing was a joke.
|
|
|
Post by Halollet on Apr 9, 2015 15:54:52 GMT
I would love to see a rule like this for stealers.
Lie in wait. Genestealers are masters of hiding to the point where they can board space freighters without anyone knowing. Any stealer unit deployed via infiltration gain shrouded and stealth until they move or charge, a failed charge still counts as moving.
I also really like that idea that SitW makes psykers get a -1 to harness the warp.
Another thing I would like to see is a second tyranid psychic disiplin. Have one for offence with warp blast, scream, horror, and our own version of iron arm. And another for support like FNP, paroxism, unit boosts, and warp field.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2015 17:17:52 GMT
Tervigons could be good if they gave ALL boords of Gaunt GENUSES'(aka hormies and termies, possibly gargoyles) within 12" like FnP 6+ and maybe +1 T(to make that FnP worth a bit more). Would be nice if maybe we could choose what kind of ground based gaunt they spawned so that we could build lists that have more variability in playstyle.
I think Warriors should have something similar to the tervigon rule, but perhaps a different kind of buff. It'd be cool if different synapse creatures provided different stat buffs to (sometimes specific) creatures in our army. Like warriors could give +1WS and BS(and make the prime grant that + something else or a higher stat buff) to all units instead of something specific. It would force us to play in a movement restricted/tactical manner to get the buffs we want as well as build our lists accordingly, but unless you completely compromised your board control and turtled in a blob(which becomes susceptible to area of effect weapons) it's not like you'd have a whole army of +10 every stat(especially if you do it like shrouded where identical buffs don't stack on themselves).
That kind of change could also REALLY do some crazy things for some of our characters. Ex. taking old one eye gives fexes within 9" of him(cause he's not a true synapse creature) gives them a 4+ feel no pain. Red terror could grant ID on rolls of 6's to all raveners in it's squad. Trygon prime could grant +3" run/assault distance for the same units.
Tyranid players have wanted more biomorph options back for a while, I support this. I think the 3rd edition codex days took biomorphs a bit too far(too many options) and 4th edition got the number just right(some were just more auto-take than others).
Most people think synapse creatures could use a 6+ invuln. Or Hell, make some variant of warp field available for synapse creatures to take as an option, don't make it cheap. But people would pay a good chunk of points to give CC tyrants a 3+ invuln like zoanthropes. Hell Maybe not even Warp field, could do something like "Psychic aberration" that gives a 4+ and +1 mastery level.
A lot of our guns need some serious re-tooling. I think in the other new codex thread regarding making guns comparable to devourers I went a bit over the top with my suggested changes, but I stand by that guns that aren't devourers at bare minimum need some point adjustment(or if they lowered the base cost of the platform creature and made devourers more expensive it could balance out as well).
I very much like the idea of highly specialized swarms that focus primarily on a few types of units to excel at a few roles.
I love the idea of SitW making opponents pass powers on a 5+ instead of 4+. Like that's super significant.
|
|
|
Post by mattblowers on Apr 9, 2015 17:42:34 GMT
After being steamrolled and completely controlled yesterday by the new Khorne, I want that for my Tyranids. Yep, yep. They are great. I'd even settle for the way that Harlequins play. They are tremendous in CC, like 'nids can only dream about. Khnorn does it even better since they get stronger as they die instead of derping like our do when they fall out of synapse. It's disheartening against Khorn to see your kills turn into daemon princes, bloodthirsters, bloodletters, and skull cannons.
|
|
|
Post by Halollet on Apr 9, 2015 22:16:57 GMT
Speaking about CC beasts, how would you guys fix the haruspex?
His face is so cool so it needs some cool rules. It should count as flesh hooks and lash whips for sure. Maybe a stomp like attack at str 4 ap - as its face tenticales rip through anything and everything. Maybe don't cap the number of wounds he have until he hits 10. Maybe have a rules that it gets crazier the more wounds it has so its base attacks would equal its wounds or like half rounded up or something. Also make claws, acid blood, etc optional! Don't want to pay points for things I don't need!
|
|
|
Post by Kark on Apr 9, 2015 22:43:53 GMT
12'' of movement and haruspex is in
|
|