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Post by Hive Bahamut on Mar 26, 2015 5:30:11 GMT
Well when every other factions beatsticks come with ++ for the same price or CHEAPER in many cases I think that it speaks for itself. No grenades? Check.. No Invul check. Terrible WS on melee creatures? Check. 1 shotted because no save so 6 wounds useless? Check.
I'm all for no Invul IF there is compensation. We have no high AP shooting and to match CC no ++. We need to be cheaper, not more durable. If not just give all TMC with Synapse FNP or something..
Tryhard is our king of derp. This is why we can't have nice things. People need to realize T6 might as well be T3 against half the stuff out there. (Grav... Le sigh..)
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Post by reitifoh on Mar 26, 2015 11:18:43 GMT
After beginnning to get some games in with my harlies I'm beginning to see the biggest issue with Tyranids and CC is the lack of an invul. Not the invul light of the swarmlord, but a true invul that lets you tank some wounds from high S low AP weapons. We can't stand that right now and so our opponents just focus down our CC threats before we get there. The new harliquins are bit finicky to pay, but they are really fun when you get it right. I wish our 'nids could be as good in CC as these T3 models! Sounds even crazier when I say it out loud. Agree man. I'm not asking for 2++ but we do need some form of invul so that a nid melee monster can trade blows with other melee monsters. The problem I see is a vast majority of folks writing off nid with invul as OP. Ppls who put down suggestion for it get blasted in warseer general. Cruddace planned to give us an ++ wargear but removed it during play testing as he felt it made the monster "too strong". exactly, tyranids with invuns is NOT op, the amount of times I've used my swarmlord in combat and he's failed his invun is unbelievable, luckily for me he usually saves at least 1 of his feel no pains afterwards (swarmlord without both is bit risky). while a agree it may not be viable to give tyranids invulnerable (or makes much sense as our only invuns come from the warp (failed psychic, warp shield and bone sabres from another galaxy) at least give our biggest creatures feel no pain as a basic rule, I mean come on, as an example: something as big as an MC being sliced by a space marine chainsword, while it wounds the creature, its so big theres a chance it wouldn't even feel it I mean that doesn't make them impossible to kill, with the amount of D weapons and instant deaths out there (force weapons) we'd still get no saves from that, but at least it would allow us to hold our own against other MC's and power weapons. afterall, it seems quite stupid that 2 mawlocs could be in a fight and NEITHER of them would be able to get any saves of any kind (both being MC's with AP2)
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Post by blackrainbow on Mar 26, 2015 15:56:20 GMT
I would like to see some cheapening of points (on so many things) for Tyrant Guard. This could shore up some of the smaller problems with getting Swarmlord or meleerants where they need to go w/o having to give them invulnerables.
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Post by jaysic on Mar 27, 2015 2:12:31 GMT
If the Trygon came with native FnP I'd consider it. As is, Dima just outperforms in so many ways. I have my reaper Flyrant for anything a reaper Trygon would do. I never run anything but dakka for flyrants, why run into combat with 4 attacks? when you can shoot all day long with 12 rerolls (yes they are not AP 2 but they usually do better for me) but I guess they can get boring after a while It's 6 attacks, not 4. A huge difference (especially with Old Adversary). If you've never tried a Melyrant, play 1 game with it and remember to keep it's shroud escort with it. That damn thing is fun as hell. I'm not sure if Flyrants get boring or not, I've never played one myself. I'm assuming they can be fun as well. My .02 for the OP is that a Dima is amazingly better than a Tryhard. If you want the math I can do it out for you. There is the arguement of "But it has Deepstrike, the tunnel, and Synapse built in!", but the Pod equals out that IMO. For the same points you get the exact same delivery system, but this one comes with more board control, extra guns, and a monster that is going to shred more in CC than the Tryhard. The tunnel only really works out with Endless Swarm, and the 12 S5AP5 shots work out to be 1.3 USW against MEQ (not really 40 points of value, imo). Yeah, Synapse is great. But the Dima shouldn't need Synapse for any reason, and you basically WANT him to fail IB. If you DON'T DS the Tryhard, then it just walks. It'll survive the same as the Dima walking (both should always have 3+ cover), but the Dima's Pod can be used for further utility with another unit, if you don't choose to just save the points and not run a pod. The real problem with the Dima is that he either has to walk, or ride in a pod. Personally, that's why I like Melyrants. Deadlier than the Tryhard, and not as deadly as the Dima, but has the manueverability to goes where it needs to and pack a mighty punch. There's also the Psyker level 2 bonus as well. That and it tanks a lot of shots with 2+ jinks, even more so if you get FNP. In the end, is Trygon Prime + Reaper good or bad? I'd say neither. And that's the problem with most of our stuff. It's not good or bad, it's just....there and it looks really cool. If nothing else it's a lot of fun, but we have other tools that do it's role better in every single way, have the same if not less vulnerabilities, and at worst, cost the same.
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Post by blackrainbow on Mar 27, 2015 3:14:35 GMT
My favorite for meleerants was my last game in 6th - charged by chaos lord pimped on a bike. ID, then wiped rest of the squad next round. They have their places. But that was with my old metta. I guess it's time to dust off the gusto and bring one of my flyers back down. I still want to find a use for the guard other than 25pts for extra wounds, but flying in with BS/LW may be a new option.
For trygon primes, sorry, have to keep a fluffy list with his load-out when I use them. Not worth the points otherwise. Of course, fluffy (or in our case, spiky?) lists are still plenty damn fun. That is the greatest part of running tyranids for me, as I've had them for so long that many games are just for fun. Or let my Necron friend work out some of his strategies so we just play speed games with any list I want. In that regards, I'll always try something that I read here at the Hive. Keeps things fresh.
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Post by N.I.B. on Mar 27, 2015 14:20:20 GMT
The Reapergon is merely a poor mans Dimachaeron. When I say poor man, I mean your meta does not allow Imperial Armour.
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Post by shadowfinder on Mar 27, 2015 14:42:12 GMT
Since we where showing some pic of trygons. This one is shopping for a new sword. but otherwise a bonesword will do for now. I've been looking at the treemen sword from fantasy. You all have a different sword that would work? As for the cost f our units yes they need to drop a lot. I play the trygon cause it is fun too and the model it really cool.
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Post by jaigo on Mar 27, 2015 20:18:16 GMT
I just gabbed the Bonesword.. trimmed it to blend into a bonesaber to extend it.
For drama I added a smaller Bonesword on the other end. Simple and nice
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Post by blackrainbow on Mar 29, 2015 3:32:55 GMT
Both seem nice, but I'll keep to the 'Nid bits. shadowfinder, that is some nice work, and custom bits like that will always win my heart. Has both personalization and kick-ass'ness.
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Post by shadowfinder on Mar 29, 2015 4:25:28 GMT
Both seem nice, but I'll keep to the 'Nid bits. shadowfinder, that is some nice work, and custom bits like that will always win my heart. Has both personalization and kick-ass'ness. I used the extra arm's I had from a toxacrine for the whips. Just looking for a equally cool sword. Thanks for the complement.
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Post by reitifoh on Mar 29, 2015 19:38:29 GMT
well, I know a lot of people have commented and dislike the Reapergon, but he really has shown his worth today, he took on a command squad + a librarian in T armour and killed them ALL before they could even wound him (2 round combat) then went on to killing a devastator squad and another tactical squad while ending the game with 1 wound, this was all without any shrouded OR backup, just himself on the other side of the field. yes I know that may not happen every game, but to me it is ALOT better to have a 6 wound initiative 7 trygon for 45 points extra (its the +3 initiative that makes the 45 points worth it)
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Post by blackrainbow on Mar 29, 2015 21:02:47 GMT
Good showing, even if it won't happen all the time. But, this is the fun stuff! When that one hormagaunt wipes the necron wraiths, or w/e heroic set of dice rolls give us, they make for great games.
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Post by N.I.B. on Mar 30, 2015 9:29:09 GMT
yes I know that may not happen every game, but to me it is ALOT better to have a 6 wound initiative 7 trygon for 45 points extra (its the +3 initiative that makes the 45 points worth it) The comparison is flawed, unless you are forced to field Trygons. You should think about what 275 points of good stuff could do for you.
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Post by reitifoh on Mar 30, 2015 10:38:00 GMT
yes I know that may not happen every game, but to me it is ALOT better to have a 6 wound initiative 7 trygon for 45 points extra (its the +3 initiative that makes the 45 points worth it) The comparison is flawed, unless you are forced to field Trygons. You should think about what 275 points of good stuff could do for you. yes I know 275 points is a lot, but as I stated at the beginning of this thread, I wanted to know wither the reaper (+45 points) made any difference to the how well the model plays, now unfortunately as I have not seen the stats for the Dima and have not got the funds for it anyway (as well as some much needed malenthropes) I was not even able to consider it in my army, however I doubt that it has higher than 7 initiative (if it does I take it all back) as well as 6 attacks, while i'll concede it is likely to have better WS (more hits) for me its the initiative boost that makes the 45 points worth it..... the shred and instant death are gravy as I already said, with initiative 7 this prime was able to kill a whole command squad AND a librarian in T armour, all without taking a single wound in close combat or causing instant death with the reaper, now considering it has no invun and is NOT a character, so can not issue challenges I find that very useful and with 12 ranged attacks at S 5 range 18", it is still a beast as it chases you down. yes other units can do his job better and for fewer points (maybe) but as people have said, he is a cool looking unit, does not cost as much funds as the other choices (dima) and gets several bonus' that make him a very fun model to play besides the other units I COULD have for that 275 points, I already do: 2x dakka flyrant, 2x H venom carnifexes (not ganna change them, they always prove their worth), Tervigon, Toxicrine, Exocrine, Swarmlord, this army is full of big nasty MC's and topped with the hierodule (tournament set up) as well as many others, so you see... short of investing lots of funds into more FW models the trygon fills it role perfectly as a 'surround' MC, allowing me to maintain FULL board control by deepstriking and cutting off strategic retreats
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Post by Jabberwocky on Mar 30, 2015 11:40:02 GMT
Google dimachaeron stats and hit the images tab, there are tons of scans of it's rules.
It's Initiative 6 puts it before almost all relevant weapons (especially as most threatening ones are I1). It's ws8 so even against dedicated cc units it wins out.
It has 7 attacks on the charge, 8-10 when out numbered. It can gain 4+ FnP once it uses ANOTHER bonus attack to kill an infantry model after rolling any 6 on it's To Hit rolls.
It is a proper beast and is cheaper.
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