Trygon Prime + Reaper..... good or bad? discuse

[reitifoh]

As the title says I have been using a trygon Prime with reaper of obliterax in around 3 games now (unfortunately due to the 2 turn limit each time didn't see much of him) but on paper and the few times he's been in combat. he's done pretty well
so a quick run down

with the Reaper he gains +3 Initiative, allowing him to outspeed all but the most battle hardened warriors
he also gains shred and +1 strength (while the +1 isn't much, it can sometimes secure that 2+ to wound and make it easier to damage vehicles without resorting to smash), with the shred he'll essentially reroll any 1's to wound

with his MC status and basic 6 attacks (5 base +1 for 2 sets of melee weapons) this would be an average of 4 wounds AP2, 1 instant (possibly)

not including his 12 attacks from deepstrike


yes this brings him up to a staggering 275 points (10 short of swarmlord) but short of the 4+ invun, WS 9, psyker and auto instant.... if you combine them in an army they are very powerful

trygon guaranteed turn 2, unless you get a 1 (alien cunning) or swarmlord 'somehow' dies (in which cause your screwed anyway as the dice aren't with you) so on turn 2 you have 1 5W MC attacking at the front with the swarm, and 1 6W MC deepstriking at your backdoor with possible reinforcements in future turns (unlikely to alien cunning, unless you run 'endless swarm' formation), as I said, tried this 3 times (only once the game actually lasted long enough) and it worked well. so I can't yet tell if that was luck, or if the reaper truly is as good as I believe for the 45 points.

[shadowfinder]

Well I was looking at running this combo myself. The Swarmlord is just so pricy. If your fluff bunny lets you a building with a coms relay will work better. Freeing up some points to use else where. If building are a no go then swarmy is the only option you have to get that +1. I am not sure how your list is configured two support these two units or how many points you are playing. I hope around 1850 to 2500.

As for the Trygon prime with the reaper. I love it personally. I been running him and he's been a lot of fun. Helps that I have a been building a custom model for him. Drop him it to cover when he comes in for the 4+ cover. Then go eat something. People are not use to seeing them and with other things coming in around him. Tyrants and Dakkafex couple pods he lives a surprising amount of the time.

Most people will tell you that it is not worth it as you can get two mawloc's for the same price or two dakkafexs for just a few more.
Down side's he is very pricey. Give him Toxin sac's instead f the reaper and he will preform just as well vs. most of his preferred targets. I use to run 3 of these in 5th ed. and always did well with them. Trygons got really hurt by the nurf to smash. if they had given just the trygon a rule that allowed it to have 3 attacks he would still be decent vs. armor but sadly that did happen.

[macdaddyt]

What killed the trygon was the nerd to smash. He is absolutely useless against anything with Toughness greater than 6 and anything with an arm value greater than 10.

The reaper trygon was something I used to use for kicks and actually started to show signs of former glory when I have him AG and Reaper to make him S8 on charge so he had a good chance against basic walkers and destroyed tanks with a rear arm of 10-12 (most tanks in the game.) the problems with Him are:
1) He's slow. Max distance per turn (running and move) is 12 inches...that's lame. His average charge threat range each turn is 12-13 inches (adding in his 6 inch movement phase move and remember fleet) He is a points sink that gets shot off the table by most armies turn 1 or 2 and will rarely get a good charge against important stuff because other codex MC's and vehicles outrun him every flipping time. (Thanks GW for making tyranids fat and slow.)

2) He lacks survivability. Tau will wreck him. Misslesides are about as point and click as 40K gets. Plasma suits are roughly the same against our MC's. Eldar will laugh and run around him while plinking off wounds (or just focusing down) with their wave serpents and such and don't even get me started on Wraithknights. Crons will now just tarpit him with warriors and slowly plink off wounds with a character that has the warsuthe. Orks have power claws that his in Mobs of infabtry and do the same as guard. Marines have lots of AP3-2 and med to high strength shooting and CC but surprisingly this may be your best matchup for Him. Guard will laugh him off the table with las cannons and high S AP2-3 blasts. Grey knights are great at killing MCs with force on everything. dark eldar are pretty much eldar with more shots. It's just sad how easy it is to kill a 6W T6 3+ save MC in today's game.

3) There are other units that do what he does better. Swarmlord is way better for 10 points more. (Yes he takes up an HQ slot and such and he can't Deepstrike or shoot but just look at the abilities of each and compare the points it's rediculous. Dima is just hands down better at everything the trygon does and even is cheaper and doesn't take up a heavy slot.

He is fun for fluffy games but in all honesty I'm considering converting mine into a Dima at this point. Not tryng to be a downer but the guy Realky is a waste of point. And all this is coming from the guy who was one of the first to try and support this loadout.

[reitifoh]

Mar 17, 2015 15:36:09 GMT macdaddyt said:

What killed the trygon was the nerd to smash. He is absolutely useless against anything with Toughness greater than 6 and anything with an arm value greater than 10.

The reaper trygon was something I used to use for kicks and actually started to show signs of former glory when I have him AG and Reaper to make him S8 on charge so he had a good chance against basic walkers and destroyed tanks with a rear arm of 10-12 (most tanks in the game.) the problems with Him are:
1) He's slow. Max distance per turn (running and move) is 12 inches...that's lame. His average charge threat range each turn is 12-13 inches (adding in his 6 inch movement phase move and remember fleet) He is a points sink that gets shot off the table by most armies turn 1 or 2 and will rarely get a good charge against important stuff because other codex MC's and vehicles outrun him every flipping time. (Thanks GW for making tyranids fat and slow.)

2) He lacks survivability. Tau will wreck him. Misslesides are about as point and click as 40K gets. Plasma suits are roughly the same against our MC's. Eldar will laugh and run around him while plinking off wounds (or just focusing down) with their wave serpents and such and don't even get me started on Wraithknights. Crons will now just tarpit him with warriors and slowly plink off wounds with a character that has the warsuthe. Orks have power claws that his in Mobs of infabtry and do the same as guard. Marines have lots of AP3-2 and med to high strength shooting and CC but surprisingly this may be your best matchup for Him. Guard will laugh him off the table with las cannons and high S AP2-3 blasts. Grey knights are great at killing MCs with force on everything. dark eldar are pretty much eldar with more shots. It's just sad how easy it is to kill a 6W T6 3+ save MC in today's game.

3) There are other units that do what he does better. Swarmlord is way better for 10 points more. (Yes he takes up an HQ slot and such and he can't Deepstrike or shoot but just look at the abilities of each and compare the points it's rediculous. Dima is just hands down better at everything the trygon does and even is cheaper and doesn't take up a heavy slot.

He is fun for fluffy games but in all honesty I'm considering converting mine into a Dima at this point. Not tryng to be a downer but the guy Realky is a waste of point. And all this is coming from the guy who was one of the first to try and support this loadout.

that's why the reaper helps out a bit, with S7 and 6 attacks he can hit all but armour 14, glancing light armour 50% of the time, the shred allows rerolls against the toughness 6, and the possibility of instant, increases his uses against characters, but the main part is the initiative 7

1) that's why he deepstrikes (swarmlord increases his chance of arriving from reserve, and his rules state he CAN NOT MISHAP), but I see your point, while he can catch whatever unit he arrives close too.... once they are dead he'll be more like a sheepdog herding the enemy)

2) crons and tau our only real counter to them now is numbers anyway, so we can't really blame the trygon for that (its the same with ALL MC's, except flyrants and crones), but ye, all your points don't just affect the trygon unfortunately.... tyranids definitely need a new codex soon to be fixed a little (possibly cheaper genestealers) but back on topic

3) yes the swarmlord is better (he's in this list 'with' him, as I said, one attacks the front with the swarm, while 1 comes up the rear), but the thing both the swarmlord AND Dima lack is your only allowed one of each, the trygon prime you can have up to 3 (excluding the reaper, minus any other heavies and points permitting), also due to its size and cost only HARDCORE tyranid players will field Dima's (unless they convert one, which again, will cost more than the trygon)
but I do agree, the swarmlord does a better job, but combine them in the same force and they are devastating, In order to prevent being overrun they will need to send their 'anti swarmlord/ trygon' force after the trygon (as its likely to be closer) and by doing that it ties them up while the swarmlord attacks the weaker, more squishy forces, at the same time the trygon shows you their strategy of dealing with the swarmlord as well as hopefully weakening it a bit
he kind of acts like a substitute from those old pokemon games, he's the weaker threat, he dies so the swarmlord can live


although you made some good points, you also proved that he IS camparitable to the swarmlord (a 'unique' character) except since he is now no longer a 'character' he can not be challenged (both a weakness and a strength) allowing him to alter his role as a mass infantry (swarm) killer while the swarmlord is more a character killer and does poorly with swarms of infantry, by adding the reaper (making him 10 points less than swarmlord) he can also take on characters..... should he choose too

[Deleted]

If you have to take a swarmlord or prime, buy a hierophant and transport it across the board. Problem solved. =D

[shadowfinder]

Mar 17, 2015 15:36:09 GMT macdaddyt said:

What killed the trygon was the nerd to smash. He is absolutely useless against anything with Toughness greater than 6 and anything with an arm value greater than 10.

The reaper trygon was something I used to use for kicks and actually started to show signs of former glory when I have him AG and Reaper to make him S8 on charge so he had a good chance against basic walkers and destroyed tanks with a rear arm of 10-12 (most tanks in the game.) the problems with Him are:
1) He's slow. Max distance per turn (running and move) is 12 inches...that's lame. His average charge threat range each turn is 12-13 inches (adding in his 6 inch movement phase move and remember fleet) He is a points sink that gets shot off the table by most armies turn 1 or 2 and will rarely get a good charge against important stuff because other codex MC's and vehicles outrun him every flipping time. (Thanks GW for making tyranids fat and slow.)

2) He lacks survivability. Tau will wreck him. Misslesides are about as point and click as 40K gets. Plasma suits are roughly the same against our MC's. Eldar will laugh and run around him while plinking off wounds (or just focusing down) with their wave serpents and such and don't even get me started on Wraithknights. Crons will now just tarpit him with warriors and slowly plink off wounds with a character that has the warsuthe. Orks have power claws that his in Mobs of infabtry and do the same as guard. Marines have lots of AP3-2 and med to high strength shooting and CC but surprisingly this may be your best matchup for Him. Guard will laugh him off the table with las cannons and high S AP2-3 blasts. Grey knights are great at killing MCs with force on everything. dark eldar are pretty much eldar with more shots. It's just sad how easy it is to kill a 6W T6 3+ save MC in today's game.

3) There are other units that do what he does better. Swarmlord is way better for 10 points more. (Yes he takes up an HQ slot and such and he can't Deepstrike or shoot but just look at the abilities of each and compare the points it's rediculous. Dima is just hands down better at everything the trygon does and even is cheaper and doesn't take up a heavy slot.

He is fun for fluffy games but in all honesty I'm considering converting mine into a Dima at this point. Not tryng to be a downer but the guy Realky is a waste of point. And all this is coming from the guy who was one of the first to try and support this loadout.

Ok I will wade in on this.

1::: As for him being slow. It is true if you are using him to cross the board. Never the way to run him IMO but that is play style for people. You drop him next to the area you want him, he will cover the ground you need.

2nd: Honestly tau can kill a flying tyrant easier then the trygon. They have the tools for it sadly. As for crons he handles warrior blobs pretty well. When was the last time you saw a war scythe in a warrior blob?
With toxin sac's you can wound a wrathknight equally, with the reaper you have a chance to instant kill so there is that. Getting to combat with is a issue. Orks have the had claws forever. I have never had a issue with fighting guard with trygons as the miss as much as we do and template shooting is not that impressive. As for Dark eldar and GK I will play them any day. That doesn't stop us from using fexs so why would it stop a trygon.

3rd:: The Swarmlord is a better combat unit I agree. But he cost an extra 75 points to do what the trygon does for less. As for the Dima he has his own issues as well and cost the same to be able to do the same.


the op ionion I using them in the same army. So the trygon is getting Preferred enemy if he wants. It is expensive combo and is combat focused army in a shoot game at the moment.
Is it the most competitive setup No but it is different and could though a monkey wrench in some peoples plans.

[gigasnail]

For fun? Sure.

In a game against a tight list? Not so much. It's going to be an expensive distraction, and it's not in any way hard to kill or tarpit.

[mattblowers]

Yes, it's playable in the sub swarm list. I also put AG on it for S8 charges. Outside of the subswarm it just gets shot down too early. IF you could bring it in with multiple pods you might have something, but I haven't tried to make it work. It's very hard to kill/tarpit with 9 raveners and a trygon and mawloc coming along to play at the same time. But we've been over this and a popular idea it aint. My advice is probably worth what you paid for it.

[reitifoh]

so far I'm seeing mixed responses, but nothing has been said that makes me think its a bad idea, for me the 45 points to make it initiative 7 is costly but worth it, the +1S, shred and instant death are just gravy obviously its a lot of points for one model (275), but without the reaper... yes he is too easy to kill, with the reaper....... he is like the swarmlord, a MONSTER in combat, but outside of it.... one big ass target
with his 6 attacks he's a lot better with swarms than the swarmlord, both can be countered with range, but once your up close (and if they are pinned) theres very little that can counter him in combat without thinking twice (instant death), may consider adding the LAN formation to make this work

[gigasnail]

No grenades + no invul save is not a good start to an expensive CC unit. Any actual CC unit that rolls up on a t prime will maul it (be a use they'll have invul saves), and it has no way to survive getting shot off the board. Just, no lol.

[tarrasque]

Gotta agree with Giga on this. He's a good bully, but so is the toxicrene for far cheaper. Anything that can fight back will shred it.

[nameless]

I think I'd get more mileage out of podded things than a trygon. For the same price I could get a podded dima and not use any HS slots.

[reitifoh]

yes but what you guys forget is we only have the 1 cc with invun..... the swarmlord, so discounting him for no invun is discounting ALL our other cc for the same reason (excluding hornagaunts of course which rely on numbers) and while I agree with the toxicrine (used him myself) it does get a bit boring using the same podded list (and he's a bigger pain to transport)

but I agree tarrasque anything that can fight back will shred him.... that's why he has the reaper, to shred it first, I quickly noticed from my games that no one bothers attacking the toxicrine anymore, they shoot it, or charge it with bader units. but from experience I've noticed the trygon gets charged by squads (people assume its less of a threat) which for me has usually meant he takes units down with him (after tieing them up for 2-3 turns)

not saying he's cheap, but tieing up crucial units for 2-3 turns, instead of getting shot from afar is better for me, and as I said.... seriously thinking of combining this with LAN, pin the units near the trygon (or any threats) and he suddenly gets to run free.

[gigasnail]

yes. that's one reason we discount many of our CC units, because they're bad at what they're supposed to be good at.

also, you cannot really rely on pinning because of either fearless, units that are unable to be pinned at all (bikes, MC's, etc), and high LD models. it's nice when it happens, but it's not something you can base a strategy around.

[doomreaper9]

Yeah 275 points is expensive distraction. Better to pod Tfex and get a better result.