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Post by gigasnail on Jan 26, 2015 21:34:29 GMT
I think the wording straight up says locked in combat from a previous round, not just locked in combat. Book not on me blah blah blah look it up to be sure.
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Post by WestRider on Jan 26, 2015 23:04:19 GMT
That's the only place it's covered that I can find, and it does specify from a previous Turn. In the regular Charging through Cover section, the only exception mentioned is if you're Charging a Unit that's been Pinned.
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Post by phayze on Jan 27, 2015 8:39:31 GMT
Whether or not they go at I1, you are still getting your attacks in against all but the fastest units. that Sonic Screech (-5 to initiative I think?) goes a long way when evening the playing team.
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Post by thenerfed on Jan 28, 2015 15:44:49 GMT
Here have been my thoughts for this edition. My models are limited and so is my game skill usually. Other things, thankfully the Tyranid physic powers are good, losing the main books isn't a big deal. Regen is SO much better. Dev spam armies are still effective. Troop spam as well. Typically anything spammed has the potential to be good. We can at least do that with flyrants, lictors, tyrannocytes, and genestealers. And why have I not read in this thread that NIDZILLA IS BACK!!!! Start using 5 squads of 5 genestealers, one with broodlord and regen. Actually field all your squads in the smallest possible. Two targets is better than 1, now you are limiting losses and stopping squads with huge dakka, as most squads can shoot one other a turn. Then the other squads live to pounce. Have them come in late game, be multiple targets, then assault. Bring in the one with lord only after assaults have started. Not sure about you guys, but I've had 5 stealers and a lord nearly win the game for me. Nearly win as in It killed HALF a 1500 space wolf army. I have been putting a SINGLE distracto Zthrope down. 50pt model with 3+ invuln, synapse, and a great shot absorber. Bring into their LOS when the flyrants or other nasties come out. It's a great deception/fire absorber. And if they don't kill it, it can get close and kill allot for 50pts. Tervigon and devgaunts I still use as well. 1tgon with 30 dev gaunts. I don't spam them anymore, or try to deep strike them. Get these squads and tgon to objectives. It'll be the beginning game annoyance As for nidzilla. Use dakkafex dakka flyrants and some 5 man genestealers. Put them all in tyrannocytes. I'm pretty sure I remember reading cytes can move and hold objectives. I'd split the board in half with 4 cytes, unleash le dakk, outflank assault whats left. Or drop them close, and put a bunch of T6 CC FMC's in their faces. 7 bro's taking the heat of an entire army and living is still funny. But now with cytes it could be 10+ T6 models. You'll have a good laugh with opponent at the very worst
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Post by mattblowers on Feb 4, 2015 14:45:51 GMT
Lately I've been playing the subterranean swarm and it is really pretty good. Here are my thoughts on it before you write me off as completely crazy:
1. Trygons: the much maligned MC. I've actually found them to be quite good. True they don't reroll failed to hits anymore, but they are still pretty good. I4 with WS5 and a ton of attacks is nothing to sneeze at. We continually complain that our MC only have 3 attacks and only have WS3. We'll here is an option to get over those hurdles but we decry them as too expensive. Are they? Maybe. But if you think of 135 points as a baseline price for TMC, how much is deepstrike worth (remember you reduce scatter to not hit a model or impassable terrain, and a base Tyranocyte is 75 points to give our other MCs a chance to do the SAME thing)? How much is WS4 worth? How much is I4 worth? How much is the Trygon tunnel worth? All those seem to be worth in the neighborhood of 50 points so I'm not sure they are that overcosted. I run my prime with Reaper of Obliterax and adrenal glands (yes, he's reallllllly expensive this way, but a god in combat) and my trygon with TS and AD. The verdict isn't out yet for me, but at least in the formation they are pretty decent.
2. Mawloc: they are pretty good, but hit or miss (literally). I have nothing new to say about them. You have to take in the formation, so I do.
3. Raveners: yes they are probably worse than shrikes in every way, though that extra initiative has won a few games for me, so how it looks on paper may not be the final answer. You can't take shrikes in the formation and you have to take raveners, so, again, I do. They are not dramatically worse than shrikes so you can play them similar to how you play shrikes. I always put rending claws on them all, they need that. If I'm playing over 1850 I run deathspitters on them all as well. At 1850 and under I can't afford the 90 points.
This formation is a medium risk/high reward list. If you come in on turn 2 this list rocks. Turn 3 it's pretty good. Turn 4 and you will regret the amount of points you dumped in the list. This formation works because of the amount of models that come in on a single turn. You literally overwhelm your opponent with CC terrors that are in their face. Your opponent HAS to react to you as the next turn you will tear him apart. This is why the formation works. At roughly 1,000 points the way I play it is a huge investment.
What to take with it and how to play: flyrants (duh) and malanthrope (again, duh). I also take mucolids as my troops choice because they are cheap. Put them in ruins but in LOS, they are hard to remove and I only use them as bait to keep my flyrants alive on the turns I have to go second. Park the flyrants near the malanthrope to get the 2+ cover saves. I also take gargoyles. I hope they come in after the trygons so I can use the tunnels. If not, I deepstrike them on/near objectives. You have to survive until the formation arrives. You will take a turn or two of punishment, luckily everything will be shrouded so you can shake off most wounds. Once the formation arrives, you control the pace of the game. I also take a dakkafex to provide a tough unit in my deployment zone to protect the malanthrope and deal with anything that gets through.
What not to take: gribblies other than gargs. They just don't work. It's too hard to time it right for them to use the Trygon holes and then you are footslogging it and they are essentially out of the game. I don't take anything other than what I have listed above, I've tried other options and they don't work with the formation.
Thoughts on playing it: - You will be able to control objectives with this list. The relic you will own as you can surround it with the formation. You can also move almost anything off objectives with the sheer power of your CC. D - Don't forget your trygons shooting attacks. those extra few wounds can make all the difference. - Protect synapse, it will become a premium commodity. - Don't get discouraged in malestrom missions, this list get owned the first couple of rounds as you can't control much. Hang in there, you will control the tempo once your formation arrives. - Think of the gargoyles as bodies to protect the trygon prime. He is your priority, get ready to move a flyrant close to provide synapse if the prime goes down. The good news is that if they kill the trygon, you likely have all your raveners left to eat face in next phase. - Timing is everything. Don't give up if it doesn't go well the first game or two. Once you learn to capitalize on your strengths, this list does really well.
So there's my thoughts. Try it out, let me know how it works for you. I'm glad I tried this little gem. My gaming group is starting to hate Trygons.
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Post by shiwan8 on Feb 5, 2015 5:00:05 GMT
The trygon hole is a joke. You never get to use it. Why? Because it arrives on turn 2, meaning it can be used from turn 3 and only one unit can do that per turn. It is useless. If the formation would arrive on turn one as a default, it would be usable. Now it's for casual games only and even then you'd have to take it as a joke only. Other reasons for this are the raveners. You get 9 wounds, no saves, no weapons, less attacks than 9 scouts and you have to pay more to get them do anything at all in the turn they arrive. You essentially pay about 135p for 3. That's 11 scouts that do better in literally every way. Scouts are not good. Trygon itself could be usable if it did not need synapse. It does, so no go there. Same for the Mawlock + the x-amount of lictors needed to do anything with it. So, essentially you get to have about 900p worth of things that need around 300p worth of support units and have to deploy to an area of 12" from the prime. 1200 point's for very little.
Compare that to 3 flyrants and an artillery node you can almost get for those points. Actually, compare that to 5 dakkafexes in tyrannocytes you get for those points. The fexpod is not an optimum unit combo and it's still infinitely better than the subterranean swarm.
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Post by mattblowers on Feb 5, 2015 12:38:52 GMT
The trygon hole is a joke. You never get to use it. Why? Because it arrives on turn 2, meaning it can be used from turn 3 and only one unit can do that per turn. It is useless. If the formation would arrive on turn one as a default, it would be usable. Now it's for casual games only and even then you'd have to take it as a joke only. Other reasons for this are the raveners. You get 9 wounds, no saves, no weapons, less attacks than 9 scouts and you have to pay more to get them do anything at all in the turn they arrive. You essentially pay about 135p for 3. That's 11 scouts that do better in literally every way. Scouts are not good. Trygon itself could be usable if it did not need synapse. It does, so no go there. Same for the Mawlock + the x-amount of lictors needed to do anything with it. So, essentially you get to have about 900p worth of things that need around 300p worth of support units and have to deploy to an area of 12" from the prime. 1200 point's for very little. Compare that to 3 flyrants and an artillery node you can almost get for those points. Actually, compare that to 5 dakkafexes in tyrannocytes you get for those points. The fexpod is not an optimum unit combo and it's still infinitely better than the subterranean swarm. While some of what you say is correct, you couldn't be more wrong if you tried. The point of this thread is to find things that most people don't like (clearly you don't like this list) and tell how they are working for you. Nearly tabled my necron opponent on turn 3 with this list last night, something that is much harder to do with the new reanimation protocols. BTW: it's a tournament list that he was playtesting with the new rules to tweak, I had enough experience with this list I thought I'd give it a whirl. If you want to play straight up conventional wisdom lists this might not be the thread for you. The best part of the win was my opponent being caught so off guard by 'nids, he kept saying "I thought Trygons were supposed to be (please do not swear)". Why you would compare raveners with scouts is something I can't even begin to comprehend. I get more satisfaction from playing a widely panned list well and placing somewhere in the middle third than I do from running a cheese factory and placing in the top third (something 'nids struggle to do anyway). I may not be a top shelf player, nor do I strive to be, but I'm better than most and as good as some. Your out of hand dismissal of the list with nothing of substance to support your assertions shows a lack of creativity I was hoping for from this thread. I get it, on paper this formation should be awful. In reality, it works pretty well. I haven't faced serpent spam with it yet, so the verdict is still out on that one. If you have something critical to add such as "Trygons really struggle with xxxx in my experience, how are you dealing with that?" or "have you thought about adding xxxx to give your list another threat?". Simply stating you can buy more scouts than I can raveners, does absolutely nothing to add to my list, this thread, or the forum.
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Post by FTGT-BeeCee on Feb 5, 2015 15:48:43 GMT
Glad you are having success with that formation. Are you sometimes struggling with places to put it when it comes in? My fear would be that i wouldn't have enough room to place the Trygon Prime and all 3 ravener broods? I play in a pretty heavy tau meta and would be concerned my raveners would eat a couple intercepting pie plates and that would be all she wrote.
Still a formation i would try in a fun game.
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Post by mattblowers on Feb 5, 2015 16:31:24 GMT
Glad you are having success with that formation. Are you sometimes struggling with places to put it when it comes in? My fear would be that i wouldn't have enough room to place the Trygon Prime and all 3 ravener broods? I play in a pretty heavy tau meta and would be concerned my raveners would eat a couple intercepting pie plates and that would be all she wrote. Still a formation i would try in a fun game. Not really. Especially in a competitive type setting where terrain is thin, there should be plenty of room. Use the no scatter on impassable terrain/unit mechanic to stick it where you want it. As for Tau, the rules specifically state that ONLY the trygon prime enters via deepstrike (the mawloc and trygon too, but that goes without saying) the raveners enter play and are PLACED thereby bipassing that mechanic. It states they can't move or charge, but otherwise are good to go. I think this has been completely missed because everyone just wrote off the formation as junk. As for Tau, Deepstrike on them with the mawloc first to kill some of the threat. Get your flyrants on the board turn 1 and get them into position. They are a recognized threat and will probably draw fire. Once the formation arrives your opponent is no longer deciding the way things are going to go, you are. This list really lets you impose your will. If the formation is delayed until turn 4, you might be in trouble.
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Post by WestRider on Feb 5, 2015 16:38:09 GMT
Interceptor goes off on anything that arrives from Reserves, not specifically by Deep Strike.
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Post by mattblowers on Feb 5, 2015 18:05:42 GMT
Interceptor goes off on anything that arrives from Reserves, not specifically by Deep Strike. Good catch. I don't know why I thought that. It does come at the end of the movement phase, so Mawloc doesn't risk getting shot if it kills the unit. Either way, shot on my turn or theirs, doesn't really matter since they can't shoot that weapon in their next phase.
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Post by FTGT-BeeCee on Feb 5, 2015 18:11:31 GMT
yeah it's just a matter of taking the large blasts while your models are bunched up. but if they don't arrive via deep strike, that might not matter. I assume they aren't held to the deep strike deployment restrictions of bring in base to base then?
either way, i'm glad you are having fun with it. The worms are some of our best models, the raveners being one of my personal favorite models in the Tyranid line. i would love to see them become more usable when we get our next codex in 2035.
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Post by tylertt on Feb 5, 2015 18:49:47 GMT
Really enjoyed reading through this threads. Its posts like this that make me want to try new builds. I am currently rolling with 6 Raveners thanks to shadowfinder.
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Post by powerbouncytommy on Feb 5, 2015 19:49:30 GMT
Anyone tried/had any luck with Maw-Claws on the Trygon Prime?
Haven't seen it mentioned anywhere but it's a cheaper load-out than the Reaper, and probably the most disappointing thing a Trygon can do these days, given its old rules, is fluff its attacks (which the Maw-Claws don't help with in the first round of course, but hopefully will thereafter). Rending also lets it pen AV 12+ without smashing, right? Might come in handy occasionally, probably not but you never know.
Tyrannocytes should also help make Trygons more effective in theory because now there are more choices for backup. Trygon Primes can also help provide synapse for whatever pops from the pod.
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Post by russellr on Feb 5, 2015 20:16:07 GMT
mattblowers: very nice posts, I liked your detailed thoughts! Creativity like that is what's needed around here shiwan8: please never say that something does "better in literally every way" ... for one, you just said scouts move faster than beasts. As matt said, this thread is about looking at the unwanted nids. Clearly, you're not willing to give stuff a go and you only look at stuff on paper instead of trying to think outside the square.
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