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Post by Mauler on Oct 18, 2014 20:12:02 GMT
Which is spam? No? Righto.
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Post by gigasnail on Oct 18, 2014 20:17:17 GMT
Good luck!
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Post by macdaddyt on Oct 18, 2014 20:30:11 GMT
Which is spam? No? Righto. It's not spam. It's one super death star unit that destroys everything you point it at.
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Post by marium on Oct 18, 2014 22:25:10 GMT
I like 7th, as far as the codex i like it, but i feel its basic. I wish they would have fixed deepstrike and assult more.
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Post by mattblowers on Oct 18, 2014 22:31:35 GMT
I like 7th, as far as the codex i like it, but i feel its basic. I wish they would have fixed deepstrike and assult more. Things would get worse for us not better if you could assault out deepstrike. SH/TH termies would be devastating.
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Post by gigasnail on Oct 18, 2014 22:48:59 GMT
i'll take that trade off. terms don't natively have precision DS, would have to have a teleport homer on something else not to scatter into stuff. to drop in safely have to be 12" out, 8-10" probably safe-ish. then have to make the charge.
let them eat gribbly. wall of gargs between our important units and w/e DS silliness there is out there. not an issue.
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Post by mattblowers on Oct 18, 2014 22:59:54 GMT
I was thinking of deathwing. Although even though I got rid of that army, it would be nice to see it on the table again.
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Post by gigasnail on Oct 18, 2014 23:06:47 GMT
still easily circumvented/tarpitted with gargoyles or the gribbly of your choice. it's not like it's a surprise move that isn't telegraphed from the minute you see the army list.
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Post by marium on Oct 19, 2014 15:41:53 GMT
I like 7th, as far as the codex i like it, but i feel its basic. I wish they would have fixed deepstrike and assult more. Things would get worse for us not better if you could assault out deepstrike. SH/TH termies would be devastating. Well if they allowed us assult with deepstrike we would see more giant worms and ravangers more. I lime the sub formation but having to wait a turn to assult is dumb. Most of the units will die before they see combat. I love the idea of a assult army with survial or tricks to get us there. I feel our gunships should support us till wr get there, not the bulk of our forces. Imagine a way to deepstrike or outflank some carnifex brood on the board and immediately let them do what they do best. I wish GW would pay more attention to these kinds of boards.
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Post by tag8833 on Oct 19, 2014 15:52:15 GMT
I keep seeing this get quoted, and I know this is not an Ork Tactica forum, but clearly Giga was unfamiliar with the new Ork Codex. He was referencing the old codex who would indeed have been crushed. In the new codex every Ork FOC slot is stacked with only the Troops being disappointing. Their troops suffer from Mob Rule in the same way our Troops suffer from Synapse. Orks being a 2nd army of mine I could easily build a Highlander Ork list that would stomp face. Just a little rundown of viable units. HQ: Warboss, Painboy, Big Mek Elite: MegaNobz, Tankbustas, Grot Tanks and to a lesser extent Burna Boyz Troops: ..... Fast: Warbikers, Stormboyz, DeffKoptas, Warbuggies, and to a lesser extend dakkajets Heavy: Mek Gunz, Lootas, Looted Wagon, and to a lesser extent Flash Gitz, Deff Dreds, and several forgeworld units. Here's the issue: while all those units might be good, they don't necessarily provide a lot of synergy. Your list has to play well together. Spamming isn't because people want to be an ass, it's because you are trying to make your list do something really well. Make Wraithknights toughness and strength 6, centurions AP 3, riptides T5, etc and spam won't be such an issue. Here is an example list with good synergy. It is a good TAC list. 1 Trukk, 1 BW, 1 squad of lootas, no duplicate units at all. Turn 2 WAAAAAGH charge. CAD: Warboss (Bike, PK, Da 'Finkin Kap) Painboy (Bike, BP) 3 Manz w/ Trukk (RR, Rokkit) 10 Tankbusta, Nob (BC, BP) 10 Boyz, Nob (BC, BP) 10 Gretchin 2 DeffKoptas (rokkits) 14 Warbikers, Nob (PK) 20 Stormboyz, Nob (BP, PK) 10 Lootas 3 Kannons, 2 Traktor Kannons, 4 Ammo runts Battlewagon (2 Rokkits, RR, Boarding Plank) Ally: Big Mek (KFF, PK, Bike) 3 Warbuggies (rokkits)
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Post by mattblowers on Oct 19, 2014 20:54:42 GMT
Here's the issue: while all those units might be good, they don't necessarily provide a lot of synergy. Your list has to play well together. Spamming isn't because people want to be an ass, it's because you are trying to make your list do something really well. Make Wraithknights toughness and strength 6, centurions AP 3, riptides T5, etc and spam won't be such an issue. Here is an example list with good synergy. It is a good TAC list. 1 Trukk, 1 BW, 1 squad of lootas, no duplicate units at all. Turn 2 WAAAAAGH charge. CAD: Warboss (Bike, PK, Da 'Finkin Kap) Painboy (Bike, BP) 3 Manz w/ Trukk (RR, Rokkit) 10 Tankbusta, Nob (BC, BP) 10 Boyz, Nob (BC, BP) 10 Gretchin 2 DeffKoptas (rokkits) 14 Warbikers, Nob (PK) 20 Stormboyz, Nob (BP, PK) 10 Lootas 3 Kannons, 2 Traktor Kannons, 4 Ammo runts Battlewagon (2 Rokkits, RR, Boarding Plank) Ally: Big Mek (KFF, PK, Bike) 3 Warbuggies (rokkits) Can't ally with yourself. We had that discussion unless this is some sort of formation. This list doesn't know what it wants to do. Are you actually trying to suggest that Orks are a "spammy" army? That is crazy. Spam isn't bad b/c of orks and limiting units b/c of overpowered units in other armies hurts them more than the armies you are trying to punish. Your fix causes as many issues as it takes care of.
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Post by tag8833 on Oct 19, 2014 21:19:22 GMT
Here is an example list with good synergy. It is a good TAC list. 1 Trukk, 1 BW, 1 squad of lootas, no duplicate units at all. Turn 2 WAAAAAGH charge. CAD: Warboss (Bike, PK, Da 'Finkin Kap) Painboy (Bike, BP) 3 Manz w/ Trukk (RR, Rokkit) 10 Tankbusta, Nob (BC, BP) 10 Boyz, Nob (BC, BP) 10 Gretchin 2 DeffKoptas (rokkits) 14 Warbikers, Nob (PK) 20 Stormboyz, Nob (BP, PK) 10 Lootas 3 Kannons, 2 Traktor Kannons, 4 Ammo runts Battlewagon (2 Rokkits, RR, Boarding Plank) Ally: Big Mek (KFF, PK, Bike) 3 Warbuggies (rokkits) Can't ally with yourself. We had that discussion unless this is some sort of formation. This list doesn't know what it wants to do. Are you actually trying to suggest that Orks are a "spammy" army? That is crazy. Spam isn't bad b/c of orks and limiting units b/c of overpowered units in other armies hurts them more than the armies you are trying to punish. Your fix causes as many issues as it takes care of. Pretty much everybody I know play BAO army comp rules. Those include self allying. I accidentally posted an illegal list because I had shoota boyz as the troop in the ally, but was playing around with Warbuggies and forgot about them. The lists knows exactly what it wants to be. It wants to be a fast assaulty army with backfield support. Everything moves fast except the Lootas, and mek Gunz who don't move at all. The Tankbustas in the Battlewagon aren't quite as fast, but have good range so they don't have to be, and they mainly exist to threaten Imperial Knights. The troops are small and cheap and just exists for FOC reasons, and to score objectives. I posted about Orks, because Giga made the absurd claim that limiting spam hurts less powerful armies more than powerful armies. Orks are an example that would gain significantly in power if we had spam limitation. Meanwhile Necrons are an example that would drop significantly in power. Right now Necrons are near the top, and Orks are near the bottom.
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Post by gigasnail on Oct 19, 2014 21:31:50 GMT
we'll have to agree to disagree then, because at this point i think you're being intentionally obtuse and this isn't going anywhere.
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Post by mattblowers on Oct 19, 2014 22:18:40 GMT
I'm with Giga on that. I don't care to continue a discussion where I feel that absurd claims are being made. My son plays a necron list at 1850 that doesn't spam anything (unless of course you call troops selections spam) and doesn't repeat any unit other than troops (not even repeating ghost arks) that is very dominating. Most people struggle against it. I can do that same thing with Eldar. Guess which of our armies struggles the most without this "spam"? my 'nids and his orks.
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Post by tag8833 on Oct 20, 2014 0:12:43 GMT
So just to be clear. Both of you feel like unbound is more balanced than bound? If so, is that the direction you would like to see GW go to balance the game?
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