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Post by innocent on May 23, 2014 6:41:45 GMT
Would I still pick up 40k?
Absolutely, 40K 20 years ago was very different from 40K today, and I had a lot of fun with it.
The one thing that gets me though is that I do not understand why people feel compelled to still play even though they hate the game and the company. The time and money investment comes back a lot. The thing is, since the 5th ed Nid dex dropped it was painfully obvious that the "you can field your old models" thing was a myth. Sure you can, but it's the equivalent of playing chess with 1 king and 2 pawns to the guy's 10 queens. Believe me, as the proud owner of an early 3rd ed army (pre codex), I tried!
That means you know you'll have to buy new books/models to keep playing, and because they double the prices every year you end up spending the same amount of money even though you are buying less.
40K is a dead investment. Splashing another 400dollars on it because you already have 2000dollars worth of mini just means you'll loose another 400dollars.
Just because you played 20years ago, doesn't mean you have to play now.
I am, however and like others, very pissed off I bought 3 Crones and 2 Exocrines in January. I think I played about 10 games with them. So that's about 40dollars per game. However that doesn't mean I want to splash another couple hundred bucks on this game just to squeeze more value out of a (please do not swear) game that i do not enjoy. I'll just write it off as a loss, maybe try to sell, and never give a single dollar again to the company that pulled this off.
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Post by Inquisitor Stingray on May 23, 2014 14:23:04 GMT
That's what irritates me with 40K now-a-days. Just because you can field a beat down force that doesn't mean you should. People need to practice self control. I limit myself to 1 Flying Hive Tyrant and 1 Crone. The rest of my army is made up of what I think is cool not what a guy on the internet says I should field to win. Granted I want to win but my goal is not to beat the snot out of my opponent either. The more games I play like this more I enjoy the game and stop caring about winning. I want to have fun, laugh and enjoy a friends company as we fight mythical battles with plastic toys. Sorry for ranting. As much as I'd like to agree with you on this, I just can't. Certainly, it's problematic that there are people out there who will abuse a game system, but it is far worse that said game system allows for such abuse. The reason why people run Wave Serpents, Riptides and Jetseers en masse is because it is efficient and clearly the better choice (in terms of winning) than settling for the second best build. I run rather subpar lists, but truth be told, when considering all the time, money and energy one has to spent on an army to play, I can't blame anyone for building an Exocrine instead of a Haruspex or taking multiple Centurions instead of Terminators. Asking people to practice self-control is just another way of saying "we need to balance this game on our own, because the developers wont." Powergamers and netlisting cheese is the symptoms of poor game design (and by extension game experience), not the actual cause. We as the players/gamers are not without responsibility for making the game enjoyable; the Eldar guy you mention is an example of this. But ultimately I think it's the poor quality of the game balance that allows such people to thrive in the hobby. Yes, people will always find loopholes and ways of abusing a game, but as is, it has never been easier.
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Post by Xantige on May 23, 2014 18:43:50 GMT
Thing is, no one goes online to talk about how they're satisfied with something. They come on to voice an opinion, ask a question, show something off, or complain, so instantly you lose all the people satisfied with how things are. Do you ever go on a forum to voice mild satisfaction about something? Problem not. The people on forums are more into the hobby, they have more things to say, or a desire to read things. In terms of 40k, that means rules and gameplay are the big thing to talk about. Sure there's painting and modeling, but you can paint and model however you want. Until GW forces us to repaint all our hormagaunts with blue eyes, there's nothing to really complain about like with rules. Basically, what I'm saying is, online you see a lot of GW-hate and hate for the game because you're looking at a population of gamers who come online to exchange list advice. So of course there will be a lot of that. Hope that made some sense. i'd be singing 40k's praises if it wasn't awful. i've been pretty adamant about trying to keep the speculation from getting out of hand and damping down the hyperbole over this new release...right up until actual scans of the new rules dropped and it became clear that we got hosed pretty solidly, again. What I meant was, on 40k forums the main population ISN'T average joe-blows who just field an average army against people who also field average armies, and they don't come online and make threads or blog posts that basically say "Had a good day at the club." If and when they do, these aren't the threads and blogs that become mega popular. What I'm saying is, you see a lot of 40k hate online -- more so than in a club -- because discontent creates discussion, and discontented people are the ones with the most voice and most population online, because they're discontented enough to take the time to write it out. Aka, the reason seanster3000 and others see a lot of talk about why 40k sucks, is because online the most popular places for discussion are populated by discontented people. Basically, it's like walking into a bar and wondering why there's so many drunks.
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Post by gigasnail on May 23, 2014 19:00:47 GMT
So 40k is great and those of us with issues with the system are simply the vocal minority?
Really?
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Post by Davor on May 24, 2014 3:26:40 GMT
I don't see that many issues with the new Tyranid codex, maybe I'm playing it wrong or just don't understand. I have more issues with my local gaming groups than I have with GW. I see more people abuse, mis-interpret, and just not follow the rules. If you took all the "rules issues" with 40K as it stands right now, about half of them are actually true issues the rest are typically people reading to much into a rule (that I will agree could be written a bit better, but they are all not nearly as bad as they are made out to be). Another issue I have with players is why do you have to spam the "best" units? Why do you have to take Jetseer Councils or Fateweaver re-rollable 2++? I read all the post-tournament results from all the North American tournaments and all the "top lists" are spam lists (I'm sorry). It's like some people read a codex find the 8-10 best units and that's all they field. Most codexes have over 30 units (ours has 34)! You're telling me only about 1/3 have any use, I just don't buy it. All people want to do in 40K anymore is find a list that tables everyone else while they hardly lose models, how is that fun? (I guess it can be fun sometimes) The day I changed my opinion (on 40K) was they day I played a guy using the current Eldar codex. His list was nothing but Wave Serpents, Wrathblades, Wrathknights, Crimson Hunters, and a Spiritseer. He curb stomped the (please do not swear) out of my army. When I finally popped a couple of this Wave Serpents he got so mad he throw the dice against the wall and was angry. I told him to calm down your winning if anyone should be mad it should be me. At the end of the game he told me next time he won't play that army. He'd bring his Sisters so I had a better chance at winning. I said how about you use the other 20 something units that are in your brand new book to which he replied why they all suck. (I want to do whatever I can to never be like this guy) So I started to embrace the way GW portrays their games in the WDs, fluffy and fun. Since I started playing this way I have enjoyed our codex so much more (sorry to say this but I think its the best one yet). That's what irritates me with 40K now-a-days. Just because you can field a beat down force that doesn't mean you should. People need to practice self control. I limit myself to 1 Flying Hive Tyrant and 1 Crone. The rest of my army is made up of what I think is cool not what a guy on the internet says I should field to win. Granted I want to win but my goal is not to beat the snot out of my opponent either. The more games I play like this more I enjoy the game and stop caring about winning. I want to have fun, laugh and enjoy a friends company as we fight mythical battles with plastic toys. Sorry for ranting. And people wonder why I say "grown up men need to win with plastic toy soldiers". Proof is in the pudding. Shame you had to play a person like that.
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Post by hornywingythingy on May 24, 2014 16:22:26 GMT
Honestly? No, if I'd not wargamed I'd probably Own a house by now, if I could take back time I'd not get into it, whilst I have loved the experiences I think my life could have been better/richer if I hadn't wargamed.
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Post by Geneva on May 25, 2014 16:00:31 GMT
Hey, how ya doin'? I probably would but to less of an extent that I did. The only army I've ever played consistently are Imperial Guard. Other armies have had their time in the sun but Guard have always been my go to 90% of the time. Had I the time over I'd play Guard and probably leave the others and use the money I would have spent on other hobbies (or the stuff I probably should have been spending it on like college books and food ).
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Post by blackrainbow on May 26, 2014 3:12:29 GMT
I feel like I'm in a similar boat, that of only playing a few games over the past decade or so. Playing the what-if game, I'd would have skipped the 2k or so of fantasy chaos warriors that are, like maybe three partially assembled? Also, all of the "cool" looking single figures from other armies I will, and would, never collect. As far as my tyranids go, I would have got more termigants instead of hormagaunts. I'm at about 90:8. I put a lot of scything talons on termie bodies back in the day.
As for the hobby as a whole, I'd still get into it. I really do enjoy the painting, and all the old battles with grey, partially assembled models with my roommate are still priceless.
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Post by blackrainbow on May 26, 2014 3:21:16 GMT
Knowing what I know today, I wouldn't have bought any Hive Crones in january. /comfort. I delayed, and now for sure never will (minus the ebay FOTM sell-off) get those. Cool as they are.
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Post by ZergLord on May 26, 2014 19:10:42 GMT
I would. Although I would've made slightly different purchases. Most importantly I would never collect Chaos Space Marines, I'd stick to Tyranids and (later) Daemons.
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Post by brucelich on May 26, 2014 21:49:16 GMT
If I could go back, yes, i would've picked up on 40k. I had tons of fun with the earlier versions and i still absolutely love the hobby part of it. That being said, if I had known how things would've turned out, I think it's safe to assume that my gaming buddies and I would've stopped with the arrival of the 6th edition. That's pretty much when we started to enjoy the game less to a point of having fewer and fewer games. I think we stuck around for the following reasons: 1- Part of our routine get-together 2- had invested so much into the hobby; 3- felt like maybe this bittersweet taste was temporary To recap, gaming-wise, I would ve stopped with 6th, yes. As for the hobby part, I don't see myself quitting anytime soon
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Post by GuardDog78 on May 26, 2014 22:13:21 GMT
I would definitely still play...and would have taken tyranids as my first and primary army again. I probably would have been a little more diverse though and instead of having about 4000 points of bugs...I'd probably have about 2500-3000...and have a secondary IG (pretty consistent through the years...and I like tanks) or Orks (great fluff and probably the most fun army in 40k).
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Post by vectron on May 26, 2014 22:30:16 GMT
Well, speaking as someone who was seriously consideringing starting up two years ago, I had the forethought to wait and see how 6th and the codex turned out before really buying into it. Now I'm waiting to see how 8th or 9th, and our next codex turns out ...
If I could go back I certainly would make the same decision - and put things on hold - unless I could go back so far as to start up during 4th or 5th ed.
I still enjoy the hobby aspect of it and have a few models, though not enough to play, and I'll happily practice picking out details on my gants until GW gets their please-do-not-swear together. And should that day never come, I have a huge box of Deadzone I haven't even begun removing from the sprues.
Regardless, I'll always identify with nids as "my" army, small as it may be, and I'll still regularily stop by here to catch up with the latest news and oogle other people's painting efforts.
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Post by Xantige on Jun 5, 2014 19:17:15 GMT
So 40k is great and those of us with issues with the system are simply the vocal minority? Really? Sorry, life took over and I forgot about this thread. No, I'm not saying 40k is great. I was just explaining to seamster3000 that the reason there's a lot of GW hate online/here is because this is where that stuff goes. If you go into a bar, you expect booze. To go into a bar and be shocked to find booze is the same as going onto a popular 40k forum or blog and being shocked by the discontent. If you love something enough to read blogs and forums on it, you've got enough passion to get mad at it. ANd that the reason you see less of this discontent in the club is because you've got more casual gamers, people who like it, but not enough to read blogs and forums, or people who will be out of the hobby in a month, or people just getting into the hobby who still only see the sunshine and rainbows.
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Post by zoat on Jun 5, 2014 21:22:27 GMT
I would start 40k again every time with my knowledge now, simply because I know this specific taste of fun I discovered with this hobby, especially during my first painting, modeling and gaming hours. It was like back then in my childhood with Pokemon and the YuGiOh-TCG, some unique feeling that soon weakened off, but never wholly disappeared when spending countless hours on that stuff, that makes you feel alive.
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