1850, All Comers, Tourney, H2H focus, Speed, no Flyers

[jaysic]

So locally I do pretty well with my nids, and in tournies have yet to do worse than 3rd place (though usually I do better than this). I try to run an army with an idea of what the swarm was particularly designed to do, be fun to play, avoid netlists, and be competitive. I've been milling around the new Codex, and here's what I plan on taking to the next two primer tournies, and eventually to CAGBASH, the largest 40k event of the year in the area that takes place at CinciCon. Here's the list

HQ
Hive Tyrant (Miasma Canon, Electroshock Grubs, Toxic Sacs, Maw-claws of Thyrax, Wings)
ELITE
Venomthrope
TROOP
15 Hormagants
15 Hormagants
15 Hormagants
30 Termagaunts
1 Tervigon
FAST
5 Shrikes (Toxic Sacs, Flesh Hooks, 4xRending Claws, BoneSword / Lashwip, Barbed Strangler)
5 Shrikes (Toxic Sacs, Flesh Hooks, 4xRending Claws, BoneSword / Lashwip, Barbed Strangler)
10Gargoyles
HEAVY
Trygon (Toxic Sacs)
Trygon (Toxic Sacs)
2 Biovores
1850 on the dot
76 Troops, 102 models, 147 wounds

This is a vanguard strike of the last remaining, heavily fortified defenses of a planet being consumed. Fast moving, hard hitting, with some durability changed sacraficed for speed.

Tactics;
The Trygons, Shrikes, and hormagants deploy as far up as possible, with clever deployment using the venomtrhope should grant 3+ cover to everything but one horm squad, which is the start of the cover wall. The Flyrant and gargoyles move up on a slight flank for more speed, target saturation, and getting in combat turn 2 to silence some guns while the other front liners fleet up the field. Added bonus of miasma flamer / ES grubs to hit aegis lines (Use templates to toss 2 flamers in before assaulting, abusing the template to hit squads that aren't the main target, and then assaulting it). Maw-claws for potential Old Advesary, but with more fun/flavor and most importantly, modeling oppertunity (Miasma canon will be fun for this too).
Biovores/ Barb Stranglers attempt to pin to try and soften up the turn 2 shooting before assaults.
The Tervigon sits in the backfield with the Termagants, which are there for board control to take objectives. Tervigon backfield Synapse, and babysitting the gants from any enemy back-field units as well. Either rolls Catalyst and buffs the Flyrant Turn 1, or rolls a different power and takes Dominion to keep it from murdering the 30 gants when it dies and spawns more backfield scoring until that happens.
Gargoyles and flyrant can move in to assist in the worse case scenarios.
Biovores thump from the backfield, ideally pinning gunlines.

This is really a bait-and-switch playstyle, throwing a lot of fast, scary units up front to eat up shooting / turns, keeping my opponent off the map so the Terms can do the real gaming winning with objectives.

Notes; I think it'd be better to run 2 Tyrannofexes and 3 Carnifexes, and would feel like a real siege breaker, but I don't own any of those models. I only have to get a few models to do the above list, and I feel it'll be pretty much as effective. I'm very much anti-flyer, and am a little chagrined to be using a "Flyrant" of sorts, but it was neccisary in this list I feel. I might play with another option as I get some games / playtesting done with this list. Also, having just finished my 5th edition list (as far as painting ect goes) I'm not too keen on buying / painting those big bugs up to my standards, especially since I have a lot of horms, gargs, and ravaners to paint for this list.

My original list had a Swarmlord instead of the Flyrant, a deathleaper, and some genestealers to get a broodlord on the table. I was going to deepstrike in Trygons / Ravaners near deathleaper, and play with his LD ability, comboed with "The Horror" and pinning from the Biovores, but really I think there's too many moving parts for that list to work, the Ravaners/Trygons still get shot for 1 free turn, and Deathleaper would be a little too vulnerable for my tastes turn 1, and is still dependant on the 2+ reserve rolls from the Swarmlord to for all the cogs to fall into place....so this is what that evolved in to.

[jaysic]

Hmmmm, was considering another option.

I could drop the Tyrant Guard, 5 Termagants, 5 Hormagants, a biovore, and then the gargoyles.
From there I combine all the Termagants into 1 squad of 30, and take a Tervigon.

This gives me more Synapse back field, will give me the same amount of scoring units backfield (assuming I get to spawn before he dies), will give me a little more durability backfield, and hopefully gives me another shot at Catalyst for the Foot Tyrant since his Tyrant guard will be gone.

My main concern with this is that I'm losing offensive power to fit the Tervigon in. One less Biovore (ok, not the biggest deal), all of the Hormagaunts become weaker, and the gargoyles are GONE, which I was really hoping to use as a screening/get into combat first to stop shooting / target saturation.

I guess my real question is, do I sacrafice offensive power to get more backfield stability, or does the list need that big hammer up front more than a solid platform in the back?

[Squire]

If you're just going to sit the footrant at the back of the table why not make it a tervigon? You already have enough termagants to band together and make it a troop choice. It's a bit bigger and harder to hide, but has the same number of wounds for less points and is a scoring unit

Also how about adrenal warriors or shrikes instead of one unit of raveners? I think you could really use some more synapse. I'd even be tempted to do some trimming and make the other trygon a prime too

[jaysic]

I don't own any warriors or shrikes, even with 5k points of mids. Also I just like ravaners, and want their speed to close the gap quickly.II'm aware of the light synapse, but I'm hoping to be in combat by turn 2 with the advancing units.

I'll take a look at a tervigon rather than the foot rant in the backfield, bit I don't think he'll do as well as a backfield DS deterrent, and will hurt the grants more if he dies than the foot rant, making him a bad synapse anchor

[jaysic]

Edited OP a bit. Added haywire thorax upgrade and TS to flyrant, moved term squads down to 10 each to get the points.

I did some math at work today, and I almost think there needs to be a post about the effect of TS on MCs, if there isn't already. 10 points for toxic sacs adds an incredibly different kill probability. I'm only shy about putting it on the footrant because I don't really expect him to get into combat, and I'd rather have the 2 Hormagants that will always be seeing action. But seriously, it almost completely ensures that hits will equal wounds.

Also spinefists and fleshborers seem to have the exact same effect (assuming T3 or T4) as far as lethality, and is really just your choice of rolling more die or not for the spinefists. Seeing that, I'd just rather run fleshborers for the ability to wound up to T7, and taking away a whole roll (twin linked spinefists) that could go against probability and ruin your day.

Edit; I might want to math out TS on Hormagants...bc holy ship.

[shrike]

I second the shrikes over Raveners. Synapse is more crucial now. Why don't you try playing your Raveners as proxy shrikes then see how it goes? Maybe you'll consider picking up the warrior kit if you like it.

[jaysic]

While shrikes are attractive, I prefer the ravaners for 1) Aesthetics 2) One more attack than shrikes and 3) Not slowed by difficult terrain while moving, or on the charge. Also, they have fleet which you'll most likely be using turn 2 for the assault. I think they'll get into combat more reliably, and be more effective once there. They should be hitting at the same time as both Trygons, the gargoyles, the hormagants (maybe even a turn before, but really, horms should keep up with these rather nicely), as well as the flyrant. Well, whatever survives up to that point, but still. If they're going to focus down the 3+ cover save prime (cover from the regular Trygon, plus venomthrope) as well as the flyrant, I'll take my chances on the IB for them to assault what they're going to assault anyway. Placement of the footrant behind the line before it rushes up turn 1 should help with this as well, and can even run up just for synapse before heading back to the backfield after the turn 2 assaults go off. Even if they do focus down the synapse, that's a lot of firepower ignoring the 10 other units which are really going to do the damage.

Also, upon review of toxic sacs, the cost effectiveness on hormagants just isn't there. For 3 points, you get the potential of buying another gant, which also adds sustainability the TS don't in the form of another wound.

[fleetofclaw]

Jan 29, 2014 5:32:16 GMT jaysic said:

While shrikes are attractive, I prefer the ravaners for 1) Aesthetics 2) One more attack than shrikes and 3) Not slowed by difficult terrain while moving, or on the charge. Also, they have fleet which you'll most likely be using turn 2 for the assault. I think they'll get into combat more reliably, and be more effective once there. They should be hitting at the same time as both Trygons, the gargoyles, the hormagants (maybe even a turn before, but really, horms should keep up with these rather nicely), as well as the flyrant. Well, whatever survives up to that point, but still. If they're going to focus down the 3+ cover save prime (cover from the regular Trygon, plus venomthrope) as well as the flyrant, I'll take my chances on the IB for them to assault what they're going to assault anyway. Placement of the footrant behind the line before it rushes up turn 1 should help with this as well, and can even run up just for synapse before heading back to the backfield after the turn 2 assaults go off. Even if they do focus down the synapse, that's a lot of firepower ignoring the 10 other units which are really going to do the damage.

Also, upon review of toxic sacs, the cost effectiveness on hormagants just isn't there. For 3 points, you get the potential of buying another gant, which also adds sustainability the TS don't in the form of another wound.

Shrikes now have the same # of attacks when kitted for CC and cost the same
Shrikes ignore terrain when they move, granted not for charge distances
Shrikes can be given assault grenades (and a free shooting attack), meaning most of the time on your charge vs a smart opponent your Raveners are I1 while the Shrikes can stay at I4
Shrikes have Synapse, something your list is lacking.
If you like the Ravener aesthetic, there is no one stopping you from proxying the Ravs as Shrikes.

[jaysic]

Bump for major edits. This thread was awesome and inspired the tweaks; thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/45414/discuss-shrikes-ravaners
I can't wait to get converting after I finish painting the Horms, but I'm short the Flesh hooks, 2 barbed stranglers, and 3 pairs of wings

[jaysic]

Ran a test game with this vs my buddy's necron test list.

He had;

2 Squads of immortals, with an overlord and cryptec in each.
2 Squads of Warriors in Ghost Arcs
2 Monoliths
5 Wraiths, 1 with the i1 causing whip and a transdimensional beamer
5 Deathmarks with a cryptec
Some crazy upgrades on the hqs/royal court


He ended up winning 3 to 1, with some poor decisions on both ends.

1 Squad of Shrikes died without doing anything. Man, they're squishy. I also did 2 wounds in Dangerous Terrain checks turn 1.
The flyrant killed itself to mindshackle Scarabs at the bottom of turn 3, which gave my opponent firstblood and warlord. I think it's flamer templates ended up killing 2 models after reanimation protocols.
Other Shrikes got tarpitted by the Wraiths, but after a squad of Hormagants rescued them the bruised and battered squad did pretty well.
Biovores did nothing
Gargoyles did nothing
Only 1 Trygon did anything, but neither died (Sustained 2 wounds between the two of them).

I didn't use my synergy at all. The flyrant flew up on his own on one flank, the Gargoyles flew up the other by themselves. Venomthrope derped out of Synapse and IB all game.
The dead Shrike squad flew up unsupported and got rapid fired down by a ghostarc full of warriors.

I need to do a few more test games, but the gargoyles HAVE to screen the shrikes, as do 1 squad of horms for the other shrikes and tyrant. I played so god aweful, but the game was tons of fun and was really close at the end (I think he had ~16 models on the table at the end of Turn , I had The Tervigon, both Trygons, and maybe 30 gants between the starting amount, and 2 spawned squads.