No more pods How do we take down the backline tanks.

[jocke01]

I've played a couple of games with the new codex testing new and old stuff. One problem I have faced is how do we now take down those backline tanks/walkers with armor 12 or better.

Before we could pod down 1-2 brood of zoans and warp lance them, but since our zoans now are doomed too walk how do we take them down or at least neutralize them. Sure we can throw some MC's at them but I'm talking about doing something in the first 3 turns.

Vs av12 it's a little easier since flyrants can hurt them. This is mostly for chaos with their forgefiends and defilers.

Hive guard and exorcrine have the guns to do it but it's hard to get in range with only 24 inch range and you need to come at them from 2 sides in order for them not just sidestepping away. Tyrannofex have the gun but lack the number of shots or BS to do it reliable but might our best bet.

Problem with both of them is that while exorcrine can get BS4 and have 3 times the number of shots it needs around 2-3 tunrs to get into range and survive (onlsaught migth help). While the tyrranofex got twice the range but only a third of the shots with BS3. If only we could splice them togheter, but wait we can!. With escalation we could use a barbed hierodule, sure it's expensive(3 exocrines is cheaper) but at least it gives out 12 S10 shot with ap3 at 48 range. It will solve the tank problem but take all our HS budget of points into one basket.

Trygons can do it but must first facetank a round of close range shooting if you deep strike it. Give hive guard fnp and a few turns and you maybe can reach them. Flyrants that roll warp blast sure but that's a wild chance.

Is it perhaps just better to use a few venomthropes to survive and just ignore them? What are your ideas?

[innocent]

Mass Crones would do it, supported by Flyrants and your Exocrines footslogging behind to keep the pressure on after the Crone alpha.

Can't think of much else unfortunately. There might be weird gimmicks with the fortifications but not much else.

[arnestig]

Tyrannofex with Rupture Cannon and glands + onslaught power (having flyrants, zoans in the army should atleast net you one onslaught) could possibly harm the heavy tanks.

[Xenos]

Our only reliable way of killing backfield AV13+ tanks is to smash MCs into them. Rupture cannons have a pathetically low probability of harming a vehicle in cover.

This isn't as dire as it sounds; we have quite a few flying MCs now, remember even the Crone/Harpy can still Smash at S10 and the Crone has Haywire missiles.

[tylertt]

Onslaught onto Zoanthropes may even help them get up there quicker if you are using them as a offensive player.

[Bukimimaru]

Is there a reason we can't use a Flyrant with HC to get outflank and use that to get Zoans / Carnifexes / Hive Guard / anything with rending into tankbusting range on turn 2?

EDIT: read this back and realised it sounded sarcastic. It was a genuine question, I'm not 100% clear on infiltrate/outflank rules.

[Mazzdakka]

Jan 16, 2014 14:00:07 GMT Bukimimaru said:

Is there a reason we can't use a Flyrant with HC to get outflank and use that to get Zoans / Carnifexes / Hive Guard / anything with rending into tankbusting range on turn 2?

EDIT: read this back and realised it sounded sarcastic. It was a genuine question, I'm not 100% clear on infiltrate/outflank rules.

I don't have my rulebook on me but I'm pretty sure the Tyrants Hive Commander rules only apply to troops. The only troops that could use it to outflank and pose a legitimate threat are rending warriors and the Tervigon. Both of which aren't exactly geared for it and would be shredded by defilers. Stealers and lictors can do it, but unless they infiltrate, the earliest they could do it would be turn three however a smart opponent can easily counter this with meat shields and staying away from board edges and they still couldn't reliably kill a defiler.

Running zoanthropes down the middle while keeping your opponent away from the board edges by having stealers or other gribblies outflanking are your best shooting bets right now. Rending Raveners can rip most of them to shreds (but not defilers) and can reach them by turn two if you can shoot a hole through its screen.

We have other options for later turns but we don't have much that can take out 'ard vehicles in the first couple of turns.

For now, suck it up, kill what you can, and rip it to shreds after your protected and screened heavies reach them.

[jocke01]

Jan 16, 2014 14:00:07 GMT Bukimimaru said:

Is there a reason we can't use a Flyrant with HC to get outflank and use that to get Zoans / Carnifexes / Hive Guard / anything with rending into tankbusting range on turn 2?

EDIT: read this back and realised it sounded sarcastic. It was a genuine question, I'm not 100% clear on infiltrate/outflank rules.

Hive commander only let's you outflank a unit of troops, otherwise yes that would have been a good tactic.

[l0rdf1end]

Best bets as previously mentioned will be a case of multiple MC's running towards their gunline and smashing.
You could say, ok, I'll do this with one of my Flyrants, but what happens after he's swooped, glided, charged and wrecked said tank?
He more than likely gets gunned down if he makes it at all.

I'm leaning much more towards an Adrenal Foot slogging rush list with multiple hard to kill MC's.
It kinda feels this is where the Dex is pushing us?
Ok, you have the Flying Swarm but the durability of that list looks less than impressive against top tier.

Basically speaking I don't think you have any reliable options other than MC rush.

[atrocity]

I think venomthropes and defense line is the way to go. 2+ save for the whole army.

Deploy aegis in the Middle of the board and walk up to it.

What can their tanks do? Barrage is a pain but usually AP high.

SMS is the only thing that really destroys the army because they kill the venomthropes.

[Hivefleet Oblivion]

We're counting on mawlocs. Or rather a mawloc, wish we had a couple; we're running that, two flyrants and two crones. Obviously the Crones are more fragile than the dakkafexes we used to pod in.

The lack of the reserves bonus on Hive Commander is likely to be our biggest problem, where previously you had a good chance of unleashing hell on turn 2, now hell just walks on slowly, while coughing and making excuses for being late.

[packer]

Jan 16, 2014 14:47:32 GMT atrocity said:

SMS is the only thing that really destroys the army because they kill the venomthropes.

Also markerlights, tau commander, thunderfire cannon, serpent shield, helldrakes, one of the divination powers, noisemarines...

Cover saves are quite unreliable in 6th edition.

[zookie]

Most tanks have AV 10 or 11 in the rear. If the tank is not hugging the table edge a Trygon Prime has an ok chance of wreaking a tank with shooting it in rear armor (3 glances in a typical attack on AV 10) at and they will have a Trygon in their back field to think about after the tank is gone.

Edit: Defilers are tough because they have 4 HPs and we really are a glance to death army. One thing you could try is to deep strike a brood of gargoyles near it. Their cheap so if they want to waste shots blowing them up then that allows you army to use a turn to get in range. If they don't see them as a threat and leave a few alive then you can assault the Defiler and blind it. Even if only 5 survive to charge into CC you will most likely blind it. Since it is a walker you might be able to tie it up in CC for some time with blind if you opponent does not deviate some infantry to deal with them.

[jocke01]

Jan 16, 2014 15:49:21 GMT zookie said:

Most tanks have AV 10 or 11 in the rear. If the tank is not hugging the table edge a Trygon Prime has an ok chance of wreaking a tank with shooting it in rear armor (3 glances in a typical attack on AV 10) at and they will have a Trygon in their back field to think about after the tank is gone.

Yes that's the ones I'm talking about. When facing nids if your tank got 36-48+ range you might as well deploy near the edge and as far away as possible since most tyranid threat range is close to mid range.

[gloomfang]

Right now I am counting on my flyrant and a unit of shrikes with AG and rending claws for dealing with AV14. Hard as hell to kill a landraider with shrikes, but you can do it.