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Post by dakkathrope on Jun 9, 2013 4:09:00 GMT
Yep, after the math Doom isn't so bad. It's just that everyone has seen those moments where Doom rocks face. I feel like the points I spend on Doom to make him scary (spore) can be just as game changing with certain choices in other dexes.
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Post by yoritomo on Jun 9, 2013 6:41:58 GMT
What can we expect?
Well, the tervigon getting nerfed. Though I think we all see that one coming. I would like to point out that it won't be because the unit is too good (even though it is), it will be because the unit doesn't do what it was designed to do.
But I'm not going to debate that here.
Traditionally tyranids got to buy their psychic powers instead of rolling for them randomly. This is because tyranids are not true psykers, they are engineered to use the power of the hive mind, which for rules purposes is close enough to psychic powers. If tyranids do get to continue to buy their own powers then I would expect them to loose the ability to roll for powers in the rulebook.
I'd also expect the harpy to have it's weapons adjusted so it can shoot at other flyer.
I do agree with getting rid of special characters. Just give us the options to take the special characters rules as biomorphs.
Let me ask you a question, what if the tyranids were the first army to receive a "centerpiece" monstrous creature? I mean the trygon and tervigon/tryannofex both fit in that boat. And if we already have centerpiece models what are the odds that GW will do it again?
I'm not saying this to be a downer, I just want you guys to be prepared when the nid codex gets released.
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Post by gigasnail on Jun 9, 2013 7:06:00 GMT
as long as my ENTIRE army isn't made useless making me buy alllllllll new stuff, as long as our units are effective without too much random chart rolling nonsense
i really don't care.
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Post by barthillious on Jun 9, 2013 8:46:50 GMT
if it only effected one unit i would agree but with how accuratly it can be deployed due to the drop pod rules it has a high potential to do a massive amount of damage and your not taking the large blast into your figures, lets say its grey knights, 2-3 wounds on 3 units of terrmies is half there army (near enough) in one shot, but really my point was its no fun, like i said you throw it in and get more than your points worth back, whether its op by a bit, a massive amount, or not at all seems too be a matter of opinion and fully understands people have had bad luck with it, for me i would hope too see more interesting choices instead of this and i do expect to see it either removed (probably along with the other named ones) or dulled down. hadden't thought about the powers.... interesting one, if they were too make you roll for them i dont think they could make it work, zones have too have warp blast etc, they could possibly make a nid table and give certain units the choice too automatically choose.
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Post by grarik on Jun 9, 2013 9:42:43 GMT
I could see zoanthrope powers not being rolled, possibly even making warp blast and warp lance bioweapons rather than psychic powers. I can also see tervigons losing psychic abilities altogether; they're going to nerf tervigons, and this is one way of nerfing them that I can see that would reduce their impact without seriously weakening the model itself. Besides, the rumour mills seem fairly confident that we're getting a new monster, and I wouldn't be surprised if its some kind of massive psychic monstrousity, essentially what the tervigon became in 6th, but better.
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Post by barthillious on Jun 9, 2013 9:49:11 GMT
that seems reasonable with the powers, as for the MC it looks like one is comming and really we should see one, how can you be a huge scary alien mennace when your biggest creature can only ankle bit the wraithknight
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Post by lacman95 on Jun 9, 2013 10:20:57 GMT
Some upgrades for the hive tyrant wouldn't go a miss. something to give it an invulnerable save (maybe a slightly weaker version of warp field, as it is a strong psychic unit)
Raveners need something more(ive had guardmens last longer in close combat)
Maybe some upgrades to make homies a little bit faster, as gargoyles are way faster and are better at killing things in close combat (due to blinding venom) and are the same cost.
I would like to see the carnifexs strength increased back to 10.
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Post by grarik on Jun 9, 2013 11:29:18 GMT
The fact that eldar gained the ability to shoot and run in the same phase makes me think that tyranids may gain the ability to run and charge, just like units with fleet could in 5th edition. obviously some units wouldn't gain the ability (biovores, tyranofexes, zoanthropes, etc), but it would be a way of allowing close combat units like genestealers and hormagaunts to get into combat sooner.
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Post by barthillious on Jun 9, 2013 11:52:37 GMT
the units that would benefit from it already have fleet on their profiles so could just add and units from codex nids with fleet also get the ability to charge after run moves, i could see it and with the fleet rules as they are now that makes for pretty reliable assault moves, they would perhaps have too tweak it some how but if it happens i will forgive all GW's misgivings:) of course another way they could handle it would be too bring back massacre result for nids, "o the days when tau gun line was just one long candy cane for the gene stealer's"
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Post by coredump on Jun 9, 2013 23:06:35 GMT
i lets say its grey knights, 2-3 wounds on 3 units of terrmies is half there army (near enough) in one shot, but really my point was its no fun, like i said you throw it in and get more than your points worth back, whether its op by a bit, a massive amount, or not at all seems too be a matter of opinion and fully understands people have had bad luck with it, for me i would hope too see more interesting choices instead of this and i do expect to see it either removed (probably along with the other named ones) or dulled down. hadden't thought about the powers.... interesting one, if they were too make you roll for them i dont think they could make it work, zones have too have warp blast etc, they could possibly make a nid table and give certain units the choice too automatically choose. dude, c'mon. lets check a few of your assumptions here... 2-3 terminators out of 3 units, that is about 300pts, so if that is half their army, it is a really small game. You are also assuming the GK player somehow manages to place their terminator units so close together, yet leaves enough space for a Spore pod and Doom to drop down, and just happen to be within 6" of 3 different terminator units. Kinda reminds me of the player complaining about flamers when they cram all of thier models in a clump. But sure, lets say there just happens to be that many terminator units that close together, and you are lucky enough to drop down just right. Okay... Now they need to roll on Ld, and they need about 11.25 wounds (because they get their invuln saves).... so that means a 12+, 13+, 13+.... and that is about a 2.3% chance Yes, even if the GK player plays stupid and puts 3 termie units close together, and even if you manage to drop down and get within 6" of all three... there is still less than a 3% chance of killing "2-3 terminators from 3 units" And sure, *if* you can drop near 2-3 units, and *if* you manage to cause quite a few wounds, then you can toss off a pretty nasty Cataclysm. But know who else can match that? Vindicators, demolishers, medusas, etc. And they don't have to get lucky first, nor worry about Psy tests and Deny the Witch, nor take damage from doing it, nor get taken out so easily by Krak/Lascannon hits. Lets say you can, on average, get in range of two units. And lets say they are, on average, Ld 9. That means that you will cause, on average, 4 wounds. Lets ignore invuln and cover saves for the moment. What are you killing that 4 wounds will 'get back' 130 points?
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Post by gigasnail on Jun 9, 2013 23:24:51 GMT
BEGONE WITH YOUR REASON AND LOGIC
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Post by barthillious on Jun 9, 2013 23:59:04 GMT
coredump i do have a reply but im going to move off to the thankyou doom thread, i dont mean too offend just wrong thread i think
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Post by innocent on Jun 10, 2013 2:48:18 GMT
I agree with Yori, expect the Tervigon to get nerfed. I wouldn't be surprised to see a "Horvigon" that spits out Hormagaunts, and which would be just plain better than a Tervi and cost 30% more $ wise In fact if you want to be competitive, expect to have to re-buy all or most of your army. I'm hoping that we will get a half decent balanced codex though. If that's the case I won't mind buying new stuff. Things I'm wondering how/if they will tackle: - Kill Points: the mechanics of replacing dead squads with freshly created ones just does not work in KP. It's the equivalent of marines giving away a KP each time they pass a bunch of armor saves. (I know it's only 1 out of 6, saddly it's not uncommon for tourneys to drop The Relic and play KPs twice). - Unless you have a decent armor save, assault is just plain inferior to shooting at the moment (mostly because every single unit in the game has a way to ignore moral, meaning wipe-outs rarely happen). I'm wondering how they are going to mitigate that.
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Post by Jabberwocky on Jun 10, 2013 9:07:35 GMT
I'm actually expecting a Genestealer Cult supplemental Codex like Codex:Iyanden, and quite glad for it.
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Post by Hive Carnithrope on Jun 10, 2013 17:59:37 GMT
Thinking about it, I'd actually much rather GW went in the opposite direction with extra biomorphs in kits, and maybe even dual kits.
Think about it. You pay £30 for a box of three warriors that each have three weapon options. That's 6 weapons you don't end up using. Sure, they can be used for bits, but honestly, I've never really used spares much. Same with the Carnifex kit. The Tervi/Tyranno kit is the worst. If I build a Tyrannofex, am I ever going to find a use for two half sacs for the Tervigon?
Which is why when everyone says they want a Warrior kit with all the weapon options, lash whips, boneswords and wings, I say no! The price would easily go up another £10, and I don't want to pay that much for extra bits I won't need.
Instead, they should have a price for basic warriors. Maybe £15 for three? Then you but the weapon options you want separately. They could be £2 a sprue of weapons, so converters still have what they want. It would be overall cheaper, and you would have less wasted money if you don't use the bits. And lets face it, GW only recently (ish) released the bonesword/lash whip sprue, so they're unlikely to pull it off the shelves into a box set.
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