Hive Guard

[Sinny!]

First up I am really sorry as this is probably the dumbest question ever but I just wanted to know how hive guards work...
Last I remember was my brother said they cant wound what they cannot see. is this still accurate?
I searched through Faqs and stuff but couldnt site the ruling I need.
Can they shoot through something like a building they cant see through? and still wound what they are shooting at?

If anyone could reference page numbers of faqs to help that would be super

[retnab]

They can be on the other side of a Bastion and shoot right through it (codex page 47 under Impaler Cannon). That's why they're such awesome units! Keep in mind the enemy model would get the 4+ "ruins" save though.

[Sinny!]

thats what i thought but according to the rulebook (i dont have one on my so i dont know the exact wording) an enemy model cant be allocoted wounds if it is out of los?

[kenji10000]

Jan 30, 2013 7:12:05 GMT Sinny! said:

thats what i thought but according to the rulebook (i dont have one on my so i dont know the exact wording) an enemy model cant be allocoted wounds if it is out of los?

Codex overrides rulebook

[infornography]

If I remember correctly, RAW, while the hive guard can indeed HIT targets they can't see, due to the wording of the various rules, they cannot WOUND targets they can't see. Which is idiotic. Most players are willing to accept the OBVIOUS RAI interpretation of if you are explicitly allowed to HIT something, then you should by all rights be allowed to WOUND it.

If your friend is not willing to accept that, then they are probably a poor sport in general. It is the special capability of the primary weapon of the unit after all.

Also they would not get that 4+ ruins cover save unless they were actually in said ruins. Impaler cannon ignores those saves.

[raylorne]

Actually today I was thinking of ways to beat my friend when he finally builds enough of a tau army to play with me, and when researching his stealth suits I obviously thought of the hive guard.

How would HG work against stealth suits in cover. Unless I'm wrong they could be in a forest and receive a 2+ cover save. Since HG don't negate cover if you're IN it would the stealth suit just be downgraded to the 5+ or would they still get some form of bonus?

[Lanesend]

If the target unit would get a coversave (for being in terrain) anyway, Stealth and Shrouded still make that coversave better.

[raylorne]

well that sucks. so what do we do against stealth suits?

[halos]

Basically any sort of combat ever.
Stealth suits get short-ish range guns, so they have to be close to you to do any damage (although do note their jump pack ability to put some distance between them and you after they've shot.)

If you catch them in combat they have low WS, I and really only have their 3+ save going for them, pretty easily beaten and swept by any half-way decent nid brood.

Alternatively just shoot them a lot, as they will be close than most of the rest of the Tau you may find a lot of broods with shorter rangeed guns out of range of more choice targets who are free to take potshots at the stealth suits, 2+ saves are great of course, but Stealth suits only get 1 wound and relatively small squad sizes so every 1 they roll is a significant reduction in effectiveness.

[sturm]

If the stealth suits reeaaaaaaaaaally annoy you, use pyrovores in a pod. Yes, I just said that. They still get the armor save though. And don't count on the pyrovore doing anything useful after they dropped.

[Nightstalker]

Codex wording states (In extra words cause it was has extra notes as well that it may shoot at targets it cannot draw line of site to) So in short it ignores line of site restrictions. It would take a rather beardy rules lawyer to say you cannot allocate wounds to a model you can specifically target with shooting.

[Jabberwocky]

If 2+ cover is troubling you, Zoans or DoM can use psychic shriek.

[daveclark890]

There are some grey knights that have the power to ignore intervening terrain to shoot, does the above rules issue count for them?

As for the issue of stealth suits in cover you need to make sure it's a large enough piece of terrain for ymghals to appear in and rip them apart.

[verminater]

And remember.. since vehicles can never claim area terrain.. so Hive Gaurd always ignore cover. Even if they try to Hide vehicles.. HG dont need line of sight.. so basically.. Vehicles beware.. if anyone tries to claim any type of cover save for their Vehicles.. even Jink.. Tell them "NO COVER FOR YOU" !!

[j0rdan]

Wait wait wait... Vehicles can still get the obscured 5+ cover right? And if they're getting it by being IN the terrain they'd still have it against Hive Guard I think.