Overpopulation and the Duggar family

[cookies]

I read an article from yahoo about a couple who had 19 kids. Here's the link: tv.yahoo.com/news/michelle-duggar-doesn-t-believe-in-overpopulation.html

The mother insists that the theory of overpopulation is wrong, citing that the entire population could fit into the city limits of Jacksonville.

My belief is that even though that many people can fit into that small a space doesn't mean they'd last very long. How would they eat? Drink? Use the restroom?

She also points out that children are joy, and saying there are too many kids is saying that there are too many flowers. After hearing her reasoning, it seems very greedy and ignorant that she chooses to have more of her own instead of adopting an abandoned, lonely, forgotten child who's own family could not care for them, or were simply orphaned.

I'd like to hear everybody else's opinion on this subject. Do you believe in overpopulation? Starvation? Do you think having this many children was ignorant?

[Helonion]

We are overpopulated, clearly because we do have starvation problems, species constantly going existence for resources, wars for resources and the fact that over 70% of the planet is water!

[Hive Carnithrope]

She is a stupid, selfish, arrogant woman who has no clue or care for the world around her.

If she is so desperate to have kids, adopt, as you said.

It's almost as bad as the woman here in the UK, who had eleven kids, never worked a day in her life, got £300,000 a year benefits and ate at McDonalds all day. Sickens me.

This world can barely sustain us, yet by 2030, there will be nine billion of us, mostly starving.

Depressing future, no?

[Overread]

Actually a lot of current starvation isn't just because of a lack of food; its more based on uneven distribution of food resources. Apparently lots of food in the west goes to waste in storage, its never sent to the poor and needy because no one is prepared to put up the shipping costs for no gain.

The world can support a larger population of humanity, but only humanity. Sadly I agree that we are, as a species, grossly overpopulated which is resulting in our destruction of masses of habitats (most wildlife restoration programs have the constant problem that they can save and captive breed many species; its just there is so little to return them to in the wild that survival becomes a major problem.

Sadly with groups such as the primary Christian Church not allowing family planning methods this does not help things (esp since this tends to affect many 3rd world nations in places such as Africa (and that goes without mentioning the Aids and Hiv problems)).

[Hive Carnithrope]

Oh yeah, if the west wasn't so greedy, there would be more than enough food for the whole world. It's sad.

[Helonion]

Mar 31, 2012 23:20:29 GMT Hive Carnithrope said:

Oh yeah, if the west wasn't so greedy, there would be more than enough food for the whole world. It's sad.

I remember a few years ago in HS they said if the US used all its farms for food and stop trying to do ethanol, we could feed the world easily. Ethanol seems like a waste, hell it was because of that, that milk going up in price caused a domino affect of price hikes.

[randoman11]

We are overpopulating this world. It is a fact that world leaders seem to be ignoring. In my eyes, the issue will pan out in one of two ways:

1) the world leaders will take steps to control the population i.e. Implementing a one-child policy

2) the world leaders will continue to bury their heads in the sand. But don't worry! When there are too many people, there will be less resources to share around. More people will die and balance will be restored.

Now which one of those sounds more desireable? (Hint: it isn't two)

[yoritomo]

Mar 31, 2012 22:20:01 GMT Hive Carnithrope said:

She is a stupid, selfish, arrogant woman who has no clue or care for the world around her.

If she is so desperate to have kids, adopt, as you said.

Spoken like an idiot child.

Tell you what, why don't you grow up, get married, have some children, and then we can talk about how selfish people are for wanting their own kinds instead of adopting.



I can't believe how people over react to these stories. OMG! This family has 19 kids! The world is overpopulating, we're all going to die!

Yet the average American household has 2 kids. That's no net population growth in the long run. But that's okay, because someone having 19 kids invalidates all statistical data.

[Yuno]

Gotta agree with Yori.

Spoliter Alert for those of you who were adopted...but adopting just isn't the same as having your own child. Specifically for women. It is very easy as a man to say oh just get one of the world's orphans...I mean its pretty much all the same to a man, they don't have nine months of a kid growing in them. It is why most studies suggest men have a harder time bonding with their infants.
Women on the other hand, it is very clear that that nine months and it being ours has a huge effect in our ability to connect with a baby. If a woman adopts, nursing the baby becomes impossible. (Nursing being a huge bonding thing between mother and child.)
Then to top it off, most family's have about 1-2 children or less. People are marrying later and having less children....
I would say anyone who wants to call that woman ignorant and greedy well you might be right. But I think you just like having people to feel annoyed with and say you are better than. ;P

[robomummy]

Mar 31, 2012 23:34:57 GMT randoman11 said:

We are overpopulating this world. It is a fact that world leaders seem to be ignoring. In my eyes, the issue will pan out in one of two ways:

1) the world leaders will take steps to control the population i.e. Implementing a one-child policy

2) the world leaders will continue to bury their heads in the sand. But don't worry! When there are too many people, there will be less resources to share around. More people will die and balance will be restored.

Now which one of those sounds more desireable? (Hint: it isn't two)

3) earth become a real Hive world

in all seriousness dont worry too much about overpopulating, it wont effect us in our lifetime. People are trying to justify other people who have many children who may live better than the millions of children around the world starving.

[Helonion]

So when I was born in 1990 the pop was estimated to be about 5.2 billion. In 20 years the pop hit 7 billion. BY the time I die saw 2060 or 2070, pop is easily 10 billion if not higher.

Yori, why would you even do a sole net growth thing? "Yet the average American household has 2 kids. That's no net population growth in the long run." That kind of invalids your argument because its a global net growth not focusing sole on North America. Even if you do go sole on the US, there is still a large migration to the country and they have kids too, so either way pop increases. We are easily overpopulated for our situation which is a warmonger/capitalistic/religious planet. If we stopped killing each other, stealing and all other kinds of (please do not swear) we do, then it wouldn't be such a problem because we could easily maintain some type of balance. But even then there is a port to how much life the planet can maintain that is just human. The more of us there are the less of other species there are and the less space there is in general.

[ziyousansz]

If you're looking at population in reference to countries, net growth is important. China has recently reconsidered the one-child policy because their population is dwindling, which weakens them as a nation in the next few generations. At the least, a country needs to maintain its populace, either by breeding or attracting more citizenry.

I have no beef with the Duggars. My wife and I will not have kids for medical reasons, but other people get great joy out of raising children into adults. The family can support all of their kids through honest work, which is the only major concern I have about people having swarms and swarms of kids.

I had heard the belief that we could fit all of the world's populace into one state before, also from hardline religious friends. I don't take statistics from that group without a heaping pile of salt, though. You have to look at resources, spacing, and environmental factors when you look at populations. Are we overcrowding India? Definitely. Are we overcrowding North America? We've got a ton of flyover country, and some pockets where everybody chooses to pile in. Are we overcrowding Siberia? Not a chance.

With better resource allocation we wouldn't worry nearly as much about starvation, but the countries that need them can rarely pay, and the countries that have them are all in desperate economic times at the moment. Many countries, U.S. included, send aid to developing countries. Many of the developing countries use it poorly. Somebody mentioned the starving kids in Africa as an example. You've got to look at what the leadership does with food and money we send them in those cases, and you'd have a better understanding of why their situation sucks so badly.

Adoption is a viable option. There are plenty of kids who don't have anything. My wife and I have discussed this route for if we decided to start a family someday later. The thing is, it isn't the same. On a biological level, you're programmed to pass your line on. Adopting a child isn't accomplishing that. It's like babysitting more than parenting, except that you babysit until they're matured. Eventually, you adapt and think of them as your own, but it takes a bit of time.

[Helonion]

Isn't the reason for China's pop going down because they thought boys are more important than girls so the gender ratio is messed up so there are a lot of males going into the military.

Also, my father was adopted (though he turned out to be an (please do not swear)), and his parents gave him everything. They loved him since day 1 (literally day of his life). Understandable that everyone wants their own kids of their own flesh and blood but your child is the one you raise.

Also I would like to take this opportunity to say the reason my grandmother could not have kids is because a fat kid fell off his horse, onto her. Swear to god true story XD

[ziyousansz]

If the Chinese were allowed more children, they wouldn't have had to choose between a son or daughter, so this wouldn't have come up as an issue. It's a cultural belief that offset the ratio, but it's a reduction in birth rate that's reducing the population.

I'm not saying adopted children don't get love and affection, just that it isn't the same. Some people adore children enough to take in a stranger's kid and give it the world. Others really need it to be their own before they'll care.

At least your grandmother's story is entertaining. It also explains a bit. People who can't have their own are usually a lot more open to adoption than people who can.

[Overread]

China is indeed a ticking time bomb with regard to their population and gender make up. It will be interesting to see how their society copes with the sudden lack of females and an overpopulation of males; I suspect large numbers will jump a field to take on brides; which means a sudden influx of other cultures into their own.

And yes many developed countries are seeing reductions in population growth; but this is massivly offset by increasing growth in many poorer nations (where improving medical and food access - even if still bad by our standards - means that more and more children make it into adulthood. Thus those large families they once had to ensure just a few survived are now surviving in greater numbers).
This balances out in developed countries because we are the migration target - thus our own base population stabilizes or reduces whilst the influx of new is from other cultures.