T 10 swarmy is a joke

[purestrain]

Supposed to be an apex Predator, dies to bolt pistol fire.

But really, he should be t11 or t12, it makes no sense to me that such a creature should only outshine (incredibly dependant on fleet choice) its lesser, the Hive Tyrant by virtue of its special ability only.

I also really, REALLY hate that he's one attack better at the same ap and dmg.

His swings should be s12 ap-3 2+d3 damage at least!

What do you all think?

[yoritomo]

Yes, and he should shoot lascannons out of his eyes and fart lightning in close combat.


All joking aside, I do wish there was something more that set him apart from a vanilla tyrant.

[piersonsmuppet]

SL has +2A over a Tyrant, but regardless it falls a little flat with both Tyrant and SL getting Twin-Linked. SL should prob be 12A or Dev Wounds to represent the 3 additional swords better.

Half damage in the form of a blade parry wouldn’t hurt either.

[purestrain]

Oct 11, 2024 3:16:20 GMT piersonsmuppet said:

SL has +2A over a Tyrant, but regardless it falls a little flat with both Tyrant and SL getting Twin-Linked. SL should prob be 12A or Dev Wounds to represent the 3 additional swords better.

Half damage in the form of a blade parry wouldn’t hurt either.

I believe that if hes going to be t10, he should have a larger defensive spread.

Bring back blade parry and it should force melee hit rolls of 1-3 to fail, it should also have a once per game ability to make the same thing happen against a single ranged weapon attack.

Also as an aside, tyrant Guard should give their UNIT 5+++.

[Overread]

I've felt the very same thing - not just on T but on Wounds as well (or hitpoints or whatever).

I think the core issue is the Norns. They've basically replaced him as the big scary close combat killing model, which means that to make them work, Swarmlord had to step down in power. The result is that he's really not all that scary on the table. At least compared to where he should be based on the lore and the relative strengths against the rest of the army.

[piersonsmuppet]

I haven’t found SL’s T10 to be much issue honestly. Lethal Hits are what kills SL most of the time for me… making it T11+ doesn’t change a thing there. I sit SL behind a ruin near the center and project the 12” CP tax for a few turns, so S12+ guns rarely get LoS and most melee that gets through to SL is S8 or below. As long as the unit doesn’t have Lethal Hits, they don’t make much of a dent in SL.

After some games with SL, I think the durability is almost there. Just a -1D would work wonders vs most of the units that really threaten SL (units with mass ap-2 D2). To get SL leading from the front vs shooting would take Avatar levels of durability (-1 to-wound and 1/2 damage)… not sure I’d take a 100pt bump for that.

[purestrain]

Oct 20, 2024 6:59:59 GMT piersonsmuppet said:

I haven’t found SL’s T10 to be much issue honestly. Lethal Hits are what kills SL most of the time for me… making it T11+ doesn’t change a thing there. I sit SL behind a ruin near the center and project the 12” CP tax for a few turns, so S12+ guns rarely get LoS and most melee that gets through to SL is S8 or below. As long as the unit doesn’t have Lethal Hits, they don’t make much of a dent in SL.

After some games with SL, I think the durability is almost there. Just a -1D would work wonders vs most of the units that really threaten SL (units with mass ap-2 D2). To get SL leading from the front vs shooting would take Avatar levels of durability (-1 to-wound and 1/2 damage)… not sure I’d take a 100pt bump for that.

Bake his tyrant Guard into his cost and make them start as Single unit, allow the entire unit to recieve the 5+++.

Also, there is lore about swarmy showing up with 4 guns instead of 4 swords but we never get a different sheet for it.

I guess I'm just salty he's gone from front line combatant with neato rules to a hide and seek opportunist.

[swarm492]

Oct 10, 2024 12:21:56 GMT purestrain said:

Supposed to be an apex Predator, dies to bolt pistol fire.

But really, he should be t11 or t12, it makes no sense to me that such a creature should only outshine (incredibly dependant on fleet choice) its lesser, the Hive Tyrant by virtue of its special ability only.

I also really, REALLY hate that he's one attack better at the same ap and dmg.

His swings should be s12 ap-3 2+d3 damage at least!

What do you all think?

Biggest problem with the SW is its on the tyrants frame. I always imagined it putting a Tyrant to shame the way GW talked it up. The SW should have a unique mini the size of an emissary.

[piersonsmuppet]

Oct 21, 2024 16:37:30 GMT purestrain said:

I guess I'm just salty he's gone from front line combatant with neato rules to a hide and seek opportunist.

SL was a front line combatant briefly in 9th once the codex dropped (though still not great), but for 2.5 editions (7, 8, and most of 9) SL was mainly a buff piece you hid behind a building and only brought in late game… or at least that’s the only way I could make SL work well during that time span. I would’ve liked if they kept some of SL’s extra deadliness from previous editions.

Norns screwed any chance of SL being barely more interesting than a Tyrant though. They look nice, but they really dashed the hopes for interesting SL rules in 10E.

[purestrain]

Oct 22, 2024 0:19:49 GMT swarm492 said:

Oct 10, 2024 12:21:56 GMT purestrain said:

Supposed to be an apex Predator, dies to bolt pistol fire.

But really, he should be t11 or t12, it makes no sense to me that such a creature should only outshine (incredibly dependant on fleet choice) its lesser, the Hive Tyrant by virtue of its special ability only.

I also really, REALLY hate that he's one attack better at the same ap and dmg.

His swings should be s12 ap-3 2+d3 damage at least!

What do you all think?

Biggest problem with the SW is its on the tyrants frame. I always imagined it putting a Tyrant to shame the way GW talked it up. The SW should have a unique mini the size of an emissary.

Miniwargaming is doing a narrative right now (it might be done idk) but he got some guys to kitbash a ht and a neurotyrant into much larger versions.

Thats what I want for my swarmy