Vanguard unit Combo/Questions

[shadowfinder]

I love the new changes to Vanguard the added new monster and raveners seam a great inclusion.

For me Vanguard is a combat focused Detachment. Some shooting is nice but it is not the focus of this detachment.

With the new str+1 and synapse rule a big plus, Vanguard never been better.

With being able to drop 3-4 mawloc/trygons turn one if you go second, only two if you go first. You can seaming overwhelm your opponent with fast units like genestealers and von-Ryans. Making it likely the big bugs will be around for charging next turn.

If you take a Flyrant you get the seeded and invisible hunters for free with it -1cp ability. It feels like you have 4-5 CP a turn.

Back it with zoans and neurotyrant unit coming in from reserves if needed.

Seams good to me.


Now my questions.

Do we need Warriors units if a big squad of raveners for less? 150 vs 215
Raveners move 10 have 7 attacks twin-linked with only ap-1.
Can anyone do the math vs melee warriors without and with the prime?

Do we need shootie bug bugs exocrine or would a flood of small to mid-size bugs work better now with the Str +1 on say warriors and others? Maybe backed by a mawloc/trygon.

If we have a lot of synapses on the board, do we need to take Deathleaper?
I like him still. Just do not think he is an auto include anymore.

Love to hear other thoughts on Vanguard as well.

[piersonsmuppet]

I think we can only drop 2 units turn 1; Invisible Hunter doesn’t say that the unit(s) must enter in your next turn.

Warriors are still a better take than Raveners. The rr1’s and sustained 1 are pretty big, and the additional AP is important for cracking high save units. I think Ravs will compete with GS for the cheap brawler role.

Still need some shooting; while all melee can work you have more chances to run into a counter list.

Deathleaper stacks with the Synapse debuff for SiTW, so DL became more effective with the changes. I still won’t leave home without it.

[shadowfinder]

Jun 27, 2024 23:22:24 GMT piersonsmuppet said:

I think we can only drop 2 units turn 1; Invisible Hunter doesn’t say that the unit(s) must enter in your next turn.

Deathleaper stacks with the Synapse depuffs for SiTW, so DL became more effective with the changes. I still won’t leave home without it.

Invisible Hunter works with like Hyperphase necron, gray knights or any other unit turn one that starts on the board. If taken off. You can return if you are going second. In the app type in deepstike and it is in the new FAQ area.

Raveners have ability naturally.

I start 2 mawloc on the board if going second and use Invisible Hunter to take them off. in my first turn I than bring them back for no CP. I than use seeded brood stratagem to bring in 2 trygons or something giving me 4 big bugs with all my fast smaller bugs.

In my mid this seems to work well. going first just means I am doing it with only two big bugs.

As for Deathleaper I think he is good still. I have him in my list. I just find he doesn't help as much as the neurolictor for that is. Half the time he is out of play because I killed off half the board where he is at. in vanguard he can get you to -3 tops for battle shock and that is very good.

I will take him if I have the points, but I do not feel he is a must take like in the past.

The neurolictore gives 3d6 battle shocks test and plus one to strength, plus -1 for -2 with BS test. Feels more helpful to the surrounding unit then -2 to Battleshock from deathleaper alone.

In nexus I feel Deathleaper is even better for that -4 to battle shock you can get.

[piersonsmuppet]

Making a Battle-shock test go from 7+ to an 8+ is the most significant decrease in success, so just getting to a -2 or -3 is perfectly fine.

Seeding and Hunter is a neat trick, though I’m not sure that Trygons/Mawlocs can really make a big enough impact to make the 400 pts and 2CP worth it. Hemming an opponent into their deployment for 1-2 turns has been significantly reduced in effectiveness by Pariah’s secret missions. There will be plenty of lists perfectly happy with sitting tight for 2 turns while they trade up. Scoring 40 primary when behind doesn’t look very difficult.

[piersonsmuppet]

Jun 27, 2024 14:56:08 GMT shadowfinder said:

If we have a lot of synapses on the board, do we need to take Deathleaper?
I like him still. Just do not think he is an auto include anymore.

So after some games, DL is definitely still strong. The new -1 to SitW BS tests did practically nothing while DL helped out a few Neurolictor/Mawloc triggered tests.

[N.I.B.]

Jun 28, 2024 0:04:54 GMT shadowfinder said:

I start 2 mawloc on the board if going second and use Invisible Hunter to take them off. in my first turn I than bring them back for no CP. I than use seeded brood stratagem to bring in 2 trygons or something giving me 4 big bugs with all my fast smaller bugs.

In my mid this seems to work well. going first just means I am doing it with only two big bugs.

I'm confused. You can't know who goes first when you deploy the Mawlocs. Also if you want to deepstrike them in turn 1 you need to use Seeded Broods, so you can never have 4 monsters deepstriking turn 1.

[piersonsmuppet]

The two units hit with Invisible Hunter can deepstrike normally T1 as they were placed into Reserves after the first Battle Round started.