Post-balance, your experience so far?

[N.I.B.]

I've had a single game with John Lennons (pre-balance) Grand Onslaught list, against Necrons. I was all but tabled turn 4, we made some error with scoring which made us not play turn 5, and I lost by 51-64. Felt a bit like usual, tabled early and hope I had made enough points before. A big swing was his Nightbringer making lots of saves and wiping my OOE + Carnifexes + Hive Tyrant in the center. Nothing really stood out, I felt slow and fragile and the balance slate didn't adress that. Granted the list wasn't optimized for the current rules.

[dkng]

Well… as the balance did nothing to improve our speed and toughness, we still feel slow and fragile. Everybody is wetting themselves to try out Zoans + Neurotyrant combo - you sure will have better shooting phase (if you manage to get where you need) but then Zoans will die like they die since 10th started (to a stiff breeze). What was bumped the most in the patch was melee but (surprise, surprise) we are still too slow and too fragile to reliably get there.

[purestrain]

Tyrannocyte needs to by 16W monsters and this won't be a problem.

[piersonsmuppet]

Zoans didn’t need added durability, they have consistently been one of the more durable units for me in 10E (as long as they stay out of the center of the board, but then what doesn’t die instantly there). What they really needed was to not become invalidated by chaff charging them. I’ve had mine tied up more often than killed, and I prefer when they are killed because it leaves other scoring units alone. The Neurotyrant bringing BGNT to Zoans is the big piece out of the data slate. Sure the +1 to-hit and possible to-wound is nice, but that is a nothing burger compared to countering Zoans biggest weakness plus all other benefits for just a 50%pts increase. Mobility is still an issue, but Strat Reserves or the Tyrant aura helps sort that out.

Now Zoans look super fun, but that doesn’t make them super competitive (still a hard unit to play well). So, what really won in the data slate? MSU GS and melee Warrior bricks in Vanguard. Invader units have mobility and durability (can’t be shot & reactive move), and the +1S is most impactful on our infantry units (next impactful is Carnifex going to S13 imo). Funnily enough, Vanguard lists like a Zoan brick and GS will enjoy the remote synapse provide by the Neurotyrant.

I’m not sure what Lennon’s list looked like, but I can bet it’s prob the typical Invasion list (or Nexus list using the Invasion shell). I think Vanguard and Nexus (less like Invasion goodstuff) will start to see more success than what Nids saw in Leviathan. So, try some of the new toys first before rendering judgment.

[laughinglictor89]

Vanguard Onslaught is a definite winner here there's so so many tools here that can build wildly different lists, I opt for Ranged Warriors over Melee Warriors they are cheaper have better damage output due to having decent guns can't be tagged in combat gain lethal hits from the Tyrant and most importantly allow us to use Surprise Assault strategem effectively, all for 1 less attack in combat and -1ap instead of -2ap in combat (no brainer for me) Battleshock is the name of the game for Vanguard Onslaught and it's working very well.

Also Mawlocs are auto take at 3 in every Vanguard Onslaught list now they gained Vanguard Invader keyword which enables us to keep putting up to 2 back in reserves every turn via Invisible Hunter strategem which enables us to use Terror from the deep over and over again for tons of Mortal Wounds and even more Battleshock tests, combined with Seeded Broods strategem we can alpha strike 2 Mawloc in BR 1 giving our opposition a headache to deal with as they can't ignore them which frees up the rest of our army to score and this detachment is quick with lots of movement tricks.

I've researched for days and Seeded Broods does work anyone who argues otherwise is just simply wrong.

[piersonsmuppet]

Melee Warriors have Twin-Linked and rr 1’s to-hit, they definitely make use of surprise assault more effectively than ranged. The AP is a pretty big deal, AP -1 can fall real flat into high saves with AoC or cover. If they work for you, that’s good to hear though!

Mawlocs have always been good in Vanguard, they didn’t really gain much with the additional keyword. You drop two T1 and the opponent’s Anti-tank that is still unbracketed and not engaged will rip right through them. Worse yet, they have multiple melee units that gain additional movement. I’ve ran mawlocs fairly often in 10E, I’ve never had an opportunity where picking them up would benefit me more than keeping them on the table to use those 16A and OC4. I like them better in Nexus where they fuel the MW generation. In Vanguard I’ve used them more to Rapid Ingress in to try and turn off strats for a unit about to charge and potentially HI.

Trygons play a little better with the Invader keyword. I’ve found they are better at killing things if they survive the charge, and have had situations where I wished I could pick one up to challenge an objective across the map. I think the top Nid list in early 10E ran2 Mawlocs alongside 3 Trygons, so the additional options should make the both units a strong inclusion still.

[purestrain]

Dont forget Ravener Shenanigans, their ability works EXTREMELY effectively in the Pariah nexus rule set.

[N.I.B.]

An Unending Swarm list went 3-0 at a small event post-changes. It had a Swarmlord with 6 Guards, and an Emissary among other things. Apparently Emissary can now be OC 15 in your turn, even when battleshocked. Something about changes to the timings.

[purestrain]

Jun 26, 2024 14:22:36 GMT N.I.B. said:

An Unending Swarm list went 3-0 at a small event post-changes. It had a Swarmlord with 6 Guards, and an Emissary among other things. Apparently Emissary can now be OC 15 in your turn, even when battleshocked. Something about changes to the timings.

Fun fact, you cant stop the extra damage caused by things like "melta x" because even though it says the damage is added to the amount when the dice is rolled, they explained it in such a was as to say that you first have the base damage, then someone can use a 0d ability (like Tfex) THEN you add the +"x".

[piersonsmuppet]

I think that’s how most places were playing Melta weapons anyway, so it just clarified vice changed the rules.

[piersonsmuppet]

Jun 26, 2024 14:22:36 GMT N.I.B. said:

… Apparently Emissary can now be OC 15 in your turn, even when battleshocked. Something about changes to the timings.

Question 7 under Timing/Sequencing in the Core rules FAQ.

[dkng]

Not MY experience but on Goonhammer there are 5 interesting lists that went 5th, 3rd and 2nd in tournaments after the balance slate. No surprise most of them are VO

40kstats.goonhammer.com/#ft4-tyranids

Edit: the placings changed miraculously

[nidzy]

Isnt zimko on this list of top finishers? Maybe he can shed some insight on what’s working about nids in the meta.

I think tyranids are going to do fine in some metas and less well in some others. My meta has a bent toward space wolves/CSM and their current rush melee lists along with montka tau and a big mixed bag others. Nids are set up to do okay against a lot of these matchups with a sturdy cp debuff from swarmlord and a decent mix of access to precision, infantry killing damage and targeted battleshock tricks that can make it difficult to set up combos against us. I don’t think we play as well into that aggressive style of tau, it’s tremendously Killy and gets to maneuver better and faster than us to do it.

We are still quite good at playing the pariah missions with the tech we have on board now that biovores don’t do the job for us solo.

[N.I.B.]

I haven't seen zimko post here in a long while, but the winning Vanguard list at Dumfries Gamers GT (50 players) was:

Swarmlord
Deathleaper
Neurotyrant (Hunting Grounds)

2x10 Hormagaunts
6 Zoanthropes
1 Biovore
1 Pyrovore
2 Neurolictors
1 Lictor

2 Exocrine
1 Maleceptor
1 Trygon
2 Mawloc

[purestrain]

SPEAKING OF POST BALANCE.


They did another FAQ, changed a few things, like how pivot values are done and you cant shoot without -1 hit with neurotyrant zoes anymore.


They also fixed stratagems with multiple targets to work with abilities like the Hive Tyrants.