List making Challange

[shadowfinder]

I been watching the meta for tyranids for a few months. Seeing the same list over and over at RTT anf smaller GT. Tyranids have been winning for Tournaments but I have seen most are not the cookie cuter list I been seeing locally.

I am going to turn the list building on its ear.
Hears the challenge.
I going to exclude Zoans, exocrine, and the maleceptor.
Can you win without those in a competitive tournament environment?

If you feel you have to have at least one of those units which one limited to one unit?

The more playstyle that don't rely on the same models makes it harder to plan against tyranids in the meta.
I recently saw a list that was basically spammed every 4++ unit we had put into a Nexus detachment. Not even a vemonthrope unit to protect the Zoans.

So, ideas on this please toss out. Swarm is a play style that looks like the meta is not ready for in its own way. What else?

Is a Mid Size mug list doable including Zoans?

[piersonsmuppet]

Zoans, Exo, and Mal are not necessary; Vanguard Onslaught, Invasion Fleet, and Unending Swarm can be competitive without the “meta” bugs.

Taking just one would depend on the list; Mal in Nexus, Zoans in swarm, and Exo in non-swarm Invasion.

Swarm is good, most just don’t play it for time reasons. Mid-bug Assimilation seems a decent choice. Even Crusher Stampede can do well if you play it smartly with Mawlocs/Trygons.

[gauntlet]

I feel that zoanthropes are not new meta unit, they are an old tradition and fill a classic synapse and anti-tank role within a swarm army. It's the big bugs like Maleceptor, Toxicrene, Tervigon and a stampede brood of 5 types of Hive Tyrants that looks weird to me.

[piersonsmuppet]

4-5 Tyrants is old tradition though, at least prior to rule-of-3.

[nidzy]

But why? Like…do what you want for sure. But it’s not like the book is out there oppressing the meta. It’s not like everyone is deathly afraid of (checks notes) the maleceptor. You’ve basically said every unit at a decent cost is out.

I also notice you didn’t list biovore which is the literally-in-every-list tyranid model.

What problem are we trying to solve here?

[dkng]

Nov 3, 2023 13:12:01 GMT nidzy said:

What problem are we trying to solve here?

Boredom

[piersonsmuppet]

I mean, the Zoan, Exo, and Mal spam is really just Nexus lists trying to copy Lennon. Nexus is probably better on more dense tables spamming Neurogants and Melee Warriors. Other Detachments barely use the “meta” units. So maybe just try something other than Nexus goodstuff?

[shadowfinder]

Nov 2, 2023 19:17:40 GMT piersonsmuppet said:

4-5 Tyrants is old tradition though, at least prior to rule-of-3.

Now you can run 7 of them. 3 Walking and 3 flyrants, plus the swarmlord.
Not sure that be good mind you. LoL but someone could.

[shadowfinder]

Nov 3, 2023 13:12:01 GMT nidzy said:

But why? Like…do what you want for sure. But it’s not like the book is out there oppressing the meta. It’s not like everyone is deathly afraid of (checks notes) the maleceptor. You’ve basically said every unit at a decent cost is out.

I also notice you didn’t list biovore which is the literally-in-every-list tyranid model.

What problem are we trying to solve here?

Not trying to solve a issue per say. I can't tell you many time i have someone say you just take more of X unit.

We had 4 tyranid players besides me at the last tournament. They all some combo of the units above and a biovore. All the list looked the same. one did nexus while the rest did invasion.

I was talking with them and a new player came up and was asking them what to but to start. They all said you must have these. three of each. Sadlly for the new player those models are very hard to find and tend to be very expensive if you do. He was kind of bummed. I spoke up and said there was difrent play style to there that can work with practice.

I asked them if they couldn't have those unit what would the recommend. Two of them said they play a different army as you can win without those unit. To other said it was an uphill battle without them. Playing on Hard Mode.

I have been playing Tyranids since 5th and they were always playing on hard mode tell 9th for a while.

Not trying to fix anything but to see if people have units or combo that they feel work? Just looking for combos maybe something I have not thought of.

I play a very different style from them.
After listening to them this became a challenge for me to play without most of those units, while being competitive.
I have one exocrine in my list. Looking to drop him in my next list.
So far it been fun, it's worked.

[piersonsmuppet]

Top Nid player in the world in Oct was using 3x Mawloc and 2x Trygon with 0 Zoan, Exo, and Mals in both Vanguard and Invasion.

Your fellow nid players are blowing smoke.

Edit: generally speaking taking multiples of something is just good for redundancy, that’s why the usual advice is take more for most units.

[gauntlet]

My own army is Hordes, but just Gaunts, Stealers, Warriors, Zoans.

You could try 3x10 genestealer. Everybody has more stealers than they can possibly field. Bloodlords if you've got them. As many Gaunts as you can muster. For synapse max Warriors both types, ranged and melee. Zoans to give it some competitive edge.

That should be a unique hordes list, contrary to the current competitive meta.

EDIT: Genestealers and Warriors should have been Battleline to give us an alternative hordes style list. They are just as iconic Tyranids infantry as Gaunts. (I suppose we can take Warriors 18x melee, 18x ranged.)

Not played a 10th Edition game yet, but once my list is stabilised, I intend announcing at the start of each battle, I will roll randomly for the detachment.
1 Endless Swarm
2 Invasion Fleet
3 Vanguard Onslaught
4 Synapse Nexus.
5 Army Owner decides
6 Opposing Player decides

With the use of Winged Primes to make Warriors Vanguard, and size 20 Gaunt Units, I honestly cannot decide which is the best detachment.

You can even go without the enhancements to make the list totally detachment independent.

0120 Termagants x20
0140 Hormagaunts x20
0150 Gargoyles x20
0170 Genestealers x10
0170 Genestealers x10
0170 Genestealers x10
0270 Broodlords x3
0110 Zoanthropes x3
0110 Zoanthropes x3
0220 Zoanthropes x6
0070 Warriors Ranged x3
0070 Warriors Ranged x3
0070 Warriors Ranged x3
0065 Winged Prime
0065 Winged Prime
0020 Ripper Swarm
----
1990 TOTAL

[piersonsmuppet]

Swarm is strong, though you'd probably want more Termagants and less Genestealers in a competitive environment. I think a good baseline core for a competitive swarm list (Invasion/Unending) is 1x Tervigon, 3x20 Termagants w/ Spinefists, 1x10 Gargoyles, Neurotyrant, 3x Venomthropes, and a Biovore. For Nexus swarm lists, you can replace the Terms & Tervigon w/ 3x22 Neurogaunts and another 1x10 Gargs (maybe SL to negate the CP from keeping a 5++ on at least 1 Neurogaunt unit at all times). Most people don't play swarm because the difficulty of managing the time, it performs better than Exo/Mal/Zoan spam if you practice and can detach yourself from killing = winning.

[nidsallday]

Nov 6, 2023 1:45:23 GMT piersonsmuppet said:

Swarm is strong, though you'd probably want more Termagants and less Genestealers in a competitive environment. I think a good baseline core for a competitive swarm list (Invasion/Unending) is 1x Tervigon, 3x20 Termagants w/ Spinefists, 1x10 Gargoyles, Neurotyrant, 3x Venomthropes, and a Biovore. For Nexus swarm lists, you can replace the Terms & Tervigon w/ 3x22 Neurogaunts and another 1x10 Gargs (maybe SL to negate the CP from keeping a 5++ on at least 1 Neurogaunt unit at all times). Most people don't play swarm because the difficulty of managing the time, it performs better than Exo/Mal/Zoan spam if you practice and can detach yourself from killing = winning.

fully agreed (as long as the mission isnt purge the foe - got punched hard a few weeks back when i tried a pure swarm list and we drew purge)

[wormlord666]

What about the raveners? Can they be a sleeper unit? 150 points and you get 42 attacks. Take em’ in invasion and you get sustained or lethal, possibly on 5+, in nexus for +1 to hit and/or +1 to charge, assimilation for regen…

Sure, it is -1 and 1 dmg but with their speed and trickery they should be able to find the juicy stuff..

Anybody had any succces with them or seen any good lists there?

[Jbizzy]

Nov 8, 2023 8:04:26 GMT wormlord666 said:

What about the raveners? Can they be a sleeper unit? 150 points and you get 42 attacks. Take em’ in invasion and you get sustained or lethal, possibly on 5+, in nexus for +1 to hit and/or +1 to charge, assimilation for regen…

Sure, it is -1 and 1 dmg but with their speed and trickery they should be able to find the juicy stuff..

Anybody had any succces with them or seen any good lists there?

I think they are a good unit for deep strike to steal objectives. No chest guns for best armour save.