Mawloc - Overwatch

[chillingworth]

When a Mawloc arrives via terror from the deep and overwatch is declared, what comes first? The mortal wounds inflicted and possible battle shock or the overwatch? If terror from the deep is first, it has a chance to stop the overwatch with battleshock.

[purestrain]

Oct 20, 2023 19:11:09 GMT chillingworth said:

When a Mawloc arrives via terror from the deep and overwatch is declared, what comes first? The mortal wounds inflicted and possible battle shock or the overwatch? If terror from the deep is first, it has a chance to stop the overwatch with battleshock.

Whenever two things interact at the same time, the player who's turn it is chooses the order.

Therefore you would terror them first, then if they aren't battleshocked, they can overwatch you

[No One]

Overwatch.

Fire Overwatch said:

WHEN: Your opponent’s Movement or Charge phase,
just after an enemy unit is set up or when an enemy
unit starts or ends a Normal, Advance, Fall Back or
Charge move

If a rule is triggered ‘just after’ something has happened,
it is resolved before anything else happens. For example, if a rule
is triggered ‘just after’ a unit selects targets for its attacks, that
rule is resolved before those attacks are resolved. The triggering of
such rules can therefore interrupt normal sequences such as the
attack sequence or the charge sequence. See Eligible Target (no
longer eligible).

Terror From The Deep: Each time this unit is set up on the
battlefield using the Deep Strike ability, roll one D6 for each
enemy unit within 12" of this model: on a 2-4, that unit suffers
D3 mortal wounds; on a 5+, that unit suffers 3 mortal wounds
and must take a Battle-shock test.

[piersonsmuppet]

Both Overwatch and TFtD resolve at the same time, “just after” clarifies that it interrupts normal flow of the game not that it supersedes other abilities that also interrupt the normal game flow (like TFtD).

[No One]

piersonsmuppet said:

not that it supersedes other abilities that also interrupt the normal game flow (like TFtD).

That is (outside of other similarly defined wording), essentially what it says.

If a rule is triggered ‘just after’ something has happened,
it is resolved before anything else happens.

Is TFTD anything? Yes. Does it also occur "just after" (or "when", the other hard defined timing which supersedes)? No. Ergo, overwatch interrupts and goes first.

[piersonsmuppet]

Anything else happening in this instance would be the next unit from reserves being set up (which TFtD also happens before). I suppose this issue is the same as the out of phase rules with Big Guns Never Tire and Overwatch, over generalization of specific wording and examples. Guess this one is another “always ask beforehand”.

[chillingworth]

Tad off topic, but not hugely.

Have the Mawloc's lost the ability to come and go from the battlefield? I can't find a reference to it.Ideally I'd like to Lictor - Rapid ingress a Mawloc into the battle, deal out some mortal wounds, soak up one round of shooting, then piss off in my turn, ready to be back next turn via the same tactic and deal more mortal wounds.

[piersonsmuppet]

You can do this in Vanguard Onslaught with Invisible Hunter, but the Mawloc must be >3” away from a unit at the end of the opponent’s Fight phase (so it’s stuck if they hit the charge). The OC 4 and 16 Attacks make pulling the Mawloc off the board not as significant as it used to be. This will cost 2CP to have a likely minimal impact on board state as well.

Edit: Also, a Lictor can only target itself with Pheromone Trails (unless your TO/opponent are super generous).

[dkng]

Oct 24, 2023 22:59:23 GMT piersonsmuppet said:

You can do this in Vanguard Onslaught with Invisible Hunter, but the Mawloc must be >3” away from a unit at the end of the opponent’s Fight phase (so it’s stuck if they hit the charge). The OC 4 and 16 Attacks make pulling the Mawloc off the board not as significant as it used to be. This will cost 2CP to have a likely minimal impact on board state as well.

Edit: Also, a Lictor can only target itself with Pheromone Trails (unless your TO/opponent are super generous).

You can't target a Mawloc with Invisible Hunter strat - it’s neither a Vanguard Invader nor infantry.

[chillingworth]

Oct 24, 2023 22:59:23 GMT piersonsmuppet said:

Edit: Also, a Lictor can only target itself with Pheromone Trails (unless your TO/opponent are super generous).

Wha!?! Until it's FAQ'd I'm using it on my Mawloc or Trygon. Pheromone Trail ruling is vague I give you that. But other rules/strats are so specific that I have to assume its intentional to be used across the army.

[No One]

chillingworth said:

Until it's FAQ'd I'm using it on my Mawloc or Trygon.

...There's no indication there's a mistake here, so that's essentially saying you'll cheat because you want it to work like that. Similarly pheremone trail is pretty clear it only works on the lictor (well, other than the general poor wording that's present in a lot of places which is consistent with it only working on the lictor) with again no indication that it's a mistake, especially considering they didn't change it in Codex.

[chillingworth]

To confirm we are all talking about this:

"Pheromone Trail: Once per battle round, you can target one model with this ability with the Rapid Ingress Stratagem for 0CP."

Are you guys using historical knowledge? Has it always been that Pheromone Trail can only be used on a Lictor? I'm sure I have used it to bring Genestealers on the table in previous versions.

It is not my intention to cheat. I just read the rules as they are. It doesn't help that others on this forum have fallen for the same mistake and weren't corrected, so I didnt question it. It's hard to interpret intention sometimes.

[wormlord666]

Oct 25, 2023 6:52:22 GMT chillingworth said:

Oct 24, 2023 22:59:23 GMT piersonsmuppet said:

Edit: Also, a Lictor can only target itself with Pheromone Trails (unless your TO/opponent are super generous).

Wha!?! Until it's FAQ'd I'm using it on my Mawloc or Trygon. Pheromone Trail ruling is vague I give you that. But other rules/strats are so specific that I have to assume its intentional to be used across the army.

Only the lictor can be targetted with this and have free rapid ingress. That is 100%. ”A unit with this ability” refers to pherome trail which means only the lictors can be ”targetted with the stratagem for 0 cp”
Old versions of rules with the same name has nothing to do with this.

[chillingworth]

As always, thank you for the clarification.