2K competitive setting

[hiveoverall]

Hi guys, long time no see !

For those who don't remember me (or for the new nids on the block) I was quite active during 7th and 8th, some part of 9th, and i am on one of the big french teams (which doesn't mean i am good, i just means i play in a very comp setting). And now i'm back !

OK so i know our bugs don't seem that comp for now (until maybe codex drops, or perhaps even then we will still be paying for our 9th ed sins when we dominated for a -much too- long time), but i think this list can play the following fixed secondaries very well, namely by cheating spore mines into "making actions" or "counting as a normal unit" until it is faked (my comp setting = chease all you want until its faqed):

- engage on all fronts

- behind enemy lines (some armies will make it too hard even with spore mine scam, and could prevent us both from engaging for several turns and scoring this)

- Cleanse or deploy teleport homers if enemy army is liable to sit back a lot and destroy our units engaging on all fronts

This is for comp play, but eldar are off the menu (they will be nerfed heavily very soon i think so no need to play against them for now i think, unless attending a big event in the next two weeks perhaps, which i don't plan on doing), i aim to have a shot against other armies (thousand sons i possibly can't win either, its ok).

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 Tyranids
 1990 pts
Number of units : 18

Eoic heroes : Deathleaper [80pts]

Characters1 : Hive tyrant [230pts] HVcanon
--- Trait : Synaptic lynchpin (this is to give 5+ feel no pain to one of our dudes within 9 for 0 cp)

Transports : Tyrannocyte [105pts] The 3 units of 2 pyrovores go in this and DS turn 1 for secondary shenanigans, pyrovores are extremely tanky for 30 points per model, and their output doesn't seem that bad. Perhaps 2 units of 3 is better for using the overwatch strat, I am on the fence on this.

Infanterie 1 : 3 Venomthropes [70pts]
Infanterie 2 : 2 Pyrovores [60pts]

Infanterie 3 : 2 Pyrovores [60pts]
Infanterie 4 : 2 Pyrovores [60pts]
Infanterie 5 : 6 Tyrant guards [190pts] (crusher claws seem the best loadout with the adaptations and/or the critical hit 5+ strat)
Infanterie 6 : Biovores [40pts]
Infanterie 7 : Biovores [40pts]
Infanterie 8 : Lictor [75pts] (could be kept in reserve for rapid ingress in some situations i guess)

Monster 1 : Haruspex [125pts]
Monster 2 : Haruspex [125pts]
Monster 3 : Haruspex [125pts]
Monster 4 : Exocrine [135pts]
Monster 5 : Exocrine [135pts]
Monster 6 : Tyrannofex [200pts] Canon for the 2d6 damage ! i guess this is where rerolling a to hit roll for 1 cp is nice
Monster 7 : Exocrine [135pts] (I was wondering if this exo could be replaced by a second fex, which would mean i lose the lictor)

What do you guys think ? I lack synapse stuff for sure, but this is mainly a monster mash so i don't knoww if its that bad. I will fall behind on primary fast for sure, but I hope my haruspex and exocrine can bash stuff hard enough to get my opponent off too much mid table scoring. Marines and custodes look like very tough match ups, knights i hope not so much, but maybe ? We def don't puch as hard and have less staying power (even with 125 pt haruspexes)

So far I have played 10th only with my orks, and have done very well (emphasis on the "so far"), so now and i want to try out our beloved nids. feel free to suggest more or less any "non new" unit, I have just about every model in the range, and 3 of each monster if not more, except for the new stuff, which i dont plan on buying for now as it seems to suck (well the mini lictors look ok but im waiting for the codex before buying anything.

I have gone over the whole index of course, and so much of it seems lack luster, i may have overlooked a few of them.

Nids seem kinda hard to play now, and i may have a suggest a list which is a lot worse than what it seems "to me", so feel free to rip my ideas apart. I have no "hard core gamer ego" as far as 10th ed goes hah hah, it is still very new to me.

While i will be using spore mines to score secondary points when i really have to, we all know this trick wont last long, so i will try and use other units when possible to do the secondary scoring, and prioritize using biovores to deny enemy units deep striking into my deployment zone and stuff like that.

[hiveoverall]

90 views, 0 words, this forum aint what it used to be

[nidsallday]

Jul 3, 2023 15:58:18 GMT hiveoverall said:

Hi guys, long time no see !

For those who don't remember me (or for the new nids on the block) I was quite active during 7th and 8th, some part of 9th, and i am on one of the big french teams (which doesn't mean i am good, i just means i play in a very comp setting). And now i'm back !

OK so i know our bugs don't seem that comp for now (until maybe codex drops, or perhaps even then we will still be paying for our 9th ed sins when we dominated for a -much too- long time), but i think this list can play the following fixed secondaries very well, namely by cheating spore mines into "making actions" or "counting as a normal unit" until it is faked (my comp setting = chease all you want until its faqed):

- engage on all fronts

- behind enemy lines (some armies will make it too hard even with spore mine scam, and could prevent us both from engaging for several turns and scoring this)

- Cleanse or deploy teleport homers if enemy army is liable to sit back a lot and destroy our units engaging on all fronts

This is for comp play, but eldar are off the menu (they will be nerfed heavily very soon i think so no need to play against them for now i think, unless attending a big event in the next two weeks perhaps, which i don't plan on doing), i aim to have a shot against other armies (thousand sons i possibly can't win either, its ok).

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 Tyranids
 1990 pts
Number of units : 18

Eoic heroes : Deathleaper [80pts]

Characters1 : Hive tyrant [230pts] HVcanon
--- Trait : Synaptic lynchpin (this is to give 5+ feel no pain to one of our dudes within 9 for 0 cp)

Transports : Tyrannocyte [105pts] The 3 units of 2 pyrovores go in this and DS turn 1 for secondary shenanigans, pyrovores are extremely tanky for 30 points per model, and their output doesn't seem that bad. Perhaps 2 units of 3 is better for using the overwatch strat, I am on the fence on this.

Infanterie 1 : 3 Venomthropes [70pts]
Infanterie 2 : 2 Pyrovores [60pts]

Infanterie 3 : 2 Pyrovores [60pts]
Infanterie 4 : 2 Pyrovores [60pts]
Infanterie 5 : 6 Tyrant guards [190pts] (crusher claws seem the best loadout with the adaptations and/or the critical hit 5+ strat)
Infanterie 6 : Biovores [40pts]
Infanterie 7 : Biovores [40pts]
Infanterie 8 : Lictor [75pts] (could be kept in reserve for rapid ingress in some situations i guess)

Monster 1 : Haruspex [125pts]
Monster 2 : Haruspex [125pts]
Monster 3 : Haruspex [125pts]
Monster 4 : Exocrine [135pts]
Monster 5 : Exocrine [135pts]
Monster 6 : Tyrannofex [200pts] Canon for the 2d6 damage ! i guess this is where rerolling a to hit roll for 1 cp is nice
Monster 7 : Exocrine [135pts] (I was wondering if this exo could be replaced by a second fex, which would mean i lose the lictor)

What do you guys think ? I lack synapse stuff for sure, but this is mainly a monster mash so i don't knoww if its that bad. I will fall behind on primary fast for sure, but I hope my haruspex and exocrine can bash stuff hard enough to get my opponent off too much mid table scoring. Marines and custodes look like very tough match ups, knights i hope not so much, but maybe ? We def don't puch as hard and have less staying power (even with 125 pt haruspexes)

So far I have played 10th only with my orks, and have done very well (emphasis on the "so far"), so now and i want to try out our beloved nids. feel free to suggest more or less any "non new" unit, I have just about every model in the range, and 3 of each monster if not more, except for the new stuff, which i dont plan on buying for now as it seems to suck (well the mini lictors look ok but im waiting for the codex before buying anything.

I have gone over the whole index of course, and so much of it seems lack luster, i may have overlooked a few of them.

Nids seem kinda hard to play now, and i may have a suggest a list which is a lot worse than what it seems "to me", so feel free to rip my ideas apart. I have no "hard core gamer ego" as far as 10th ed goes hah hah, it is still very new to me.

While i will be using spore mines to score secondary points when i really have to, we all know this trick wont last long, so i will try and use other units when possible to do the secondary scoring, and prioritize using biovores to deny enemy units deep striking into my deployment zone and stuff like that.

i dont know about the pyrovores and venomthropes, maybe zoans instead for synapse and anti-tank?
but else, as a fan of monster mash, i love the list!

if you only care about comp word goes around that full horde seems to be super effective for winning on points (you might get tabled around 4th round, but apparently you are able to deny the enemy enough scoring so they cant catch up. but i personaly really dont like horde playstyle, just thought i through it in
edit: rumor has it that, maybe aside from aeldari, you should be even able to go toe to toe with top table.

[No One]

I mean, it looks fairly similar to my nid list that I think is solid but haven't really tested to have opinions or commentary to give . Specific theorycrafting I guess:
- T-cyte doesn't seem worth it over just strat reserves. And yeah, a 3 man squad of pyros for at least the option seems solid.
- Cover's not super hard to get so really don't like venoms
- Lynchpin...not sure how I feel about that on a walkrant. Not having alien cunning, not having adaptive bio (though 6 t-guard helps with that. But it's also 6 t-guard and cops blast). Lynchpin parasite (or neurotyrant) maybe better if you want Synapse security? Or zoans. But also yeah, Synapse is basically just the 5+++, which is good, but...how much do you want to invest to secure that?
- Not a huge fan of rupture t-fex: doesn't seem to leverage the defensive stats well enough, doesn't have the firepower over exo/zoans, and you don't have the overwatch threat like t-fex to help deal with bodyblocks

[piersonsmuppet]

I'll echo several points:

- Tcyte doesn't offer much imo, especially with free strat reserves.
- Venomthropes are a waste in monster lists, it's so easy to hide the tail behind ruins to not be fully visible.
- Tfex variance is too much, they are fun but not a competitive choice.


Some changes:

-Drop the Tfex, Tcyte, & Venoms for 2x6 Zoans; they pair so well with multiple Exos.
-Go with 1 3x Pyrovore unit, cut 3x TG, and add a third 6x Zoan.
-20 pts leftover, upgrade to Alien Cunning on the Tyrant.


Gets you a classic spam list, but Haruspex, Exo, and Zoans are the best costed units in the book. As always, redeploys are auto-take if resolved in step 11 (especially when Lictors/DL are so flexible with deployment).

[nidsallday]

Jul 4, 2023 14:57:46 GMT No One said:

I mean, it looks fairly similar to my nid list that I think is solid but haven't really tested to have opinions or commentary to give . Specific theorycrafting I guess:
- T-cyte doesn't seem worth it over just strat reserves. And yeah, a 3 man squad of pyros for at least the option seems solid.
- Cover's not super hard to get so really don't like venoms
- Lynchpin...not sure how I feel about that on a walkrant. Not having alien cunning, not having adaptive bio (though 6 t-guard helps with that. But it's also 6 t-guard and cops blast). Lynchpin parasite (or neurotyrant) maybe better if you want Synapse security? Or zoans. But also yeah, Synapse is basically just the 5+++, which is good, but...how much do you want to invest to secure that?
- Not a huge fan of rupture t-fex: doesn't seem to leverage the defensive stats well enough, doesn't have the firepower over exo/zoans, and you don't have the overwatch threat like t-fex to help deal with bodyblocks

reg t-fex with rc, i did a calc with 1 rc t-fex vs 1 exo for damage dealt per pointscost. and one with 3 exos vs 2 rc t-fex.
it was here: thetyranidhive.proboards.com/post/1015913/thread

to sum it up:
1 exo vs 1 t-fex: Tyrannofex is more damage per points for vehicles with less then or equal to T9 (because of S18 on RC). As soon as Tyranno looses 2+ to Wound because of S/T Exo can benefit more from Lethal Hits. If you dont have Lethal Hits Tyranno is, statistically, better anti-tank in a D/P view. The next breakpoint would be T16 (as this would let Exo only wound on 6+, but Tyranno still on 3+) which would put Tyranno in an even better position compared to Exo.
3 exos vs 2 rc t-fex: If you've got Lethal hits with 2 out of 3 Exos having rr1 they become more efficient then two Tyrannos without rr. Without Lethal Hits Tyrannos are more efficient.

also:
3 Exos with lethal hits and 2/3 with rr1 are, on avarage, just enough to kill a repulsor. but 2 tyrannos with lethal hits are not cutting it (on average they are leaving the repulsor on 2,52 wounds)

[hiveoverall]

OK thanks a lot everyone! All your posts have been very helpful, I do see now that venoms would be better used in a horde spam list, like the one nidsallday hinted at.
@no One and piersonsmuppet you guys are right, i should drop the transport testicule, the venoms and the tfex (come to think of it i don't want to spend a cp every time it shoots for a reroll to help ensure the rupture cannon does something, not when indeed zoanthropes are a thing), and go for alien cunning (I initially had alien cunning down in my list, felt bad removing it) and zoanthropes. One brood of 3 pyros is enough for turn 2 reserve.
Going to only 3 tyrant guards is the only thing I am weary about, but come to think of it 6 is just waay too many points, so ok.

Here is a new version with 3*6 zoanthropes (the exact list @piersonmuppet suggested, which i think will be cool to play, despite spam of exo haru and zoanthropes)

Epic heroes : Deathleaper [80pts]

Characters1 : Hive tyrant [250pts] HVcanon
--- Trait : Alien cunning

Infanterie 1 : 3 Pyrovores [90pts]
Infanterie 2 : 3 Tyrant guards [95pts] (crusher claws)

Infanterie 3 : 6 zoanthropes [180pts]

Infanterie 4 : 6 zoanthropes [180pts]

Infanterie 5 : 6 zoanthropes [180pts]

Infanterie 6 : Biovores [40pts]
Infanterie 7 : Biovores [40pts]
Infanterie 8 : Lictor [75pts] (could be kept in reserve for rapid ingress in some situations i guess)

Monster 1 : Haruspex [125pts]
Monster 2 : Haruspex [125pts]
Monster 3 : Haruspex [125pts]
Monster 4 : Exocrine [135pts]
Monster 5 : Exocrine [135pts]
Monster 6 : Exocrine [135pts]

[nidsallday]

Jul 5, 2023 7:58:30 GMT hiveoverall said:

OK thanks a lot everyone! All your posts have been very helpful, I do see now that venoms would be better used in a horde spam list, like the one nidsallday hinted at.
@no One and piersonsmuppet you guys are right, i should drop the transport testicule, the venoms and the tfex (come to think of it i don't want to spend a cp every time it shoots for a reroll to help ensure the rupture cannon does something, not when indeed zoanthropes are a thing), and go for alien cunning (I initially had alien cunning down in my list, felt bad removing it) and zoanthropes. One brood of 3 pyros is enough for turn 2 reserve.
Going to only 3 tyrant guards is the only thing I am weary about, but come to think of it 6 is just waay too many points, so ok.

Here is a new version with 3*6 zoanthropes (the exact list @piersonmuppet suggested, which i think will be cool to play, despite spam of exo haru and zoanthropes)

Epic heroes : Deathleaper [80pts]

Characters1 : Hive tyrant [250pts] HVcanon
--- Trait : Alien cunning

Infanterie 1 : 3 Pyrovores [90pts]
Infanterie 2 : 3 Tyrant guards [95pts] (crusher claws)

Infanterie 3 : 6 zoanthropes [180pts]

Infanterie 4 : 6 zoanthropes [180pts]

Infanterie 5 : 6 zoanthropes [180pts]

Infanterie 6 : Biovores [40pts]
Infanterie 7 : Biovores [40pts]
Infanterie 8 : Lictor [75pts] (could be kept in reserve for rapid ingress in some situations i guess)

Monster 1 : Haruspex [125pts]
Monster 2 : Haruspex [125pts]
Monster 3 : Haruspex [125pts]
Monster 4 : Exocrine [135pts]
Monster 5 : Exocrine [135pts]
Monster 6 : Exocrine [135pts]

love the list!
should bring good anti tank capabilites, with good and tough primary scoring on haru / lictor and nice secondary scoring with bio/lictor

would you mind giving a quick summary how the list ran once you were able to get some games in? would be super interessting to hear

[hiveoverall]

So I absolutely crushed dark angels last Saturday despite having a really hard time killing the termi brick. His firepower and melee was just insufficient to get rid of my monsters sitting on objectives, and he couldn’t really deny them either.
I do think this list can’t do much vs IKnights, CW eldar or gsc, but it was fun to play ! I got my biovore killed because of the desolators and next time I will remember to launch a spore mine and place it out of their range so it move towards my home objective (we were playing table quarters) later in the game.

Deathleaper and lictor were great to score engage on all fronts and though I scored nearly no points for «  behind enemy lines », choosing this secondary made my opponent think it was a good idea to really screen out his table quarter. But that meant he didn’t have enough stuff to push along the board and I by turn 3 I just had so many more primary points than him that it was game over

[nidsallday]

Jul 18, 2023 14:43:35 GMT hiveoverall said:

So I absolutely crushed dark angels last Saturday despite having a really hard time killing the termi brick. His firepower and melee was just insufficient to get rid of my monsters sitting on objectives, and he couldn’t really deny them either.
I do think this list can’t do much vs IKnights, CW eldar or gsc, but it was fun to play ! I got my biovore killed because of the desolators and next time I will remember to launch a spore mine and place it out of their range so it move towards my home objective (we were playing table quarters) later in the game.

Deathleaper and lictor were great to score engage on all fronts and though I scored nearly no points for «  behind enemy lines », choosing this secondary made my opponent think it was a good idea to really screen out his table quarter. But that meant he didn’t have enough stuff to push along the board and I by turn 3 I just had so many more primary points than him that it was game over

great to hear, and seems to be somewhat in line of what auspex presented in his nids list video (i.e. nidzilla or at least balanced nidzilla/horde list seem to do best for nids). the stretch of toughness and the removal of obsec really seem to help monsters in the primary game.
happy to hear the list worked as you planned

[gauntlet]

If you think the TFex has some merits but not the most efficient, isn't the solution to have a proportional mix.

2x6 Zoans
1x3 Zoans
2x Exocrine
1x TFex.

The Exocrines help the reliability of the TFex.
Just the TFex being in your toolbox may make your opponent think, damn, I won't try some of my usual maneouvres because of the potential of that Rupture Cannon.

Just like quantity has a quality all of it's own. Deterence and diversity are also real qualities to be considered.