Anyone notice the difference?

[purestrain]

It looks like nids must have undergone a larger overhaul, or things from the codex were accidentally put onto the info for the weapons in the leviathan instruction book I got.

Things like the NeuroTyrant actually having a good flamer at d6 auto hits S2 Ap-2 3D, but with anti infantry 2+ and ignore cover.

The Winged Tyranid Prime ONLY being known as the Tyranid Prime and having 6 S 5 ap-1 1d attacks

The neurogaunts were niche already but in my book it says they having anti psyker 3+, making them an okay go to for massed wounding some losers like 1k sons. 

Nuerotyrant and prime having ld4 SK being Ld10 with 10 S6 ap-2 2d attacks...

Is this the datasheets for combat patrol? if so why is the psychphage still anti psyker 2+?

Think we got hosed.


Edit, Also the neurotyrant is t5 in my book XD

[parzaius]

There have been reports from folks who've worked on Nid codexes in previous editions that Upper Management have 'stopped by, looked at the Nid Codex in progress, then given their suggestions right before the thing was supposed to be finalized.'

Sure sure, conspiracy theories. But, look at the nodebeast and tell me that wasn't a rule that got cut at the 11th hour. The current state makes zero sense. It and all the stuff you're talking about smacks of The Crud sticking his filthy fingers into the pot.

[No One]

purestrain said:

Is this the datasheets for combat patrol? if so why is the psychphage still anti psyker 2+?

Sounds very much a no. Neurotyrant isn't even in the combat patrol. Possible it was for a Levi version or something, but the Levi datasheets released on the website are the same.

That said, there's definitely something odd going on with datasheets: there was a term datasheet way back (first 10e datasheet we saw I believe) from the stream, with ripper on the datasheet, no weapon options and different rules. Once we saw the actual term datasheet, it seemed like the first might just be combat patrol or something. But no, term datasheet there is different again: basically the same as Index but with only fleshborer. So don't know where that came from.

parzaius said:

But, look at the nodebeast and tell me that wasn't a rule that got cut at the 11th hour.

It's a unit champion, which exist for...reasons. But those basically never have rules (I think neuro might be the only one actually), just different wargear options. Even then we're not alone in them having no difference, though might be the only one where that's because there's just no options.

[parzaius]

Jun 26, 2023 1:50:53 GMT No One said:

purestrain said:

Is this the datasheets for combat patrol? if so why is the psychphage still anti psyker 2+?

Sounds very much a no. Neurotyrant isn't even in the combat patrol. Possible it was for a Levi version or something, but the Levi datasheets released on the website are the same.

That said, there's definitely something odd going on with datasheets: there was a term datasheet way back (first 10e datasheet we saw I believe) from the stream, with ripper on the datasheet, no weapon options and different rules. Once we saw the actual term datasheet, it seemed like the first might just be combat patrol or something. But no, term datasheet there is different again: basically the same as Index but with only fleshborer. So don't know where that came from.

parzaius said:

But, look at the nodebeast and tell me that wasn't a rule that got cut at the 11th hour.

It's a unit champion, which exist for...reasons. But those basically never have rules (I think neuro might be the only one actually), just different wargear options. Even then we're not alone in them having no difference, though might be the only one where that's because there's just no options.

Except that Nids have NEVER had unit champions. Never not once in 9 editions. They didn't make a whole new sculpt and make the unit size 11/22 just for a no-rules sgt.

[nbmraptor]

Jun 26, 2023 1:57:20 GMT parzaius said:

Except that Nids have NEVER had unit champions. Never not once in 9 editions. They didn't make a whole new sculpt and make the unit size 11/22 just for a no-rules sgt.

Except that both the broodlord and neurothrope started out as unit champions (can't quite remember in which editions, but can check if you want) before becoming characters on their own I think in 8th.

But I agree, it's weird to have these champions just because that don't do anything

[Iryan]

There is some really weird nonsense going on. One thing I noticed is that in the Core Rules, in the example they use to show fast rolling of a shooting attack, they say fleshborers are AP-1, and calculate the damage against the terminators accordingly.

Starting to make it seem like either a bunch of miscommunication, or a bunch of latestage interference from the top. Perhaps both. And now nobody knows what is real anymore.

[yoritomo]

No, the broodlord and neurothrope were never unit champions. The broodlord started as an HQ choice back in 3rd edition and the neurothrope started as a HQ in 8th edition.

[Iryan]

Jun 26, 2023 6:18:31 GMT yoritomo said:

No, the broodlord and neurothrope were never unit champions. The broodlord started as an HQ choice back in 3rd edition and the neurothrope started as a HQ in 8th edition.

Neurothropes were definitely an optional seargent upgrade for Zoanthropes in 7th edition. Changing them to a standalone character was a change made in 8th. And now they are gone again.

[afewveiws]

I don't know about earlier then 5th Ed but that's when broodlord was a unit upgrade. Essentially making him a Sargent equivalent sort of, but far more then that. cost like 30ish points I think.

[nidsallday]

Jun 25, 2023 23:21:55 GMT purestrain said:

It looks like nids must have undergone a larger overhaul, or things from the codex were accidentally put onto the info for the weapons in the leviathan instruction book I got.

Things like the NeuroTyrant actually having a good flamer at d6 auto hits S2 Ap-2 3D, but with anti infantry 2+ and ignore cover.

The Winged Tyranid Prime ONLY being known as the Tyranid Prime and having 6 S 5 ap-1 1d attacks

The neurogaunts were niche already but in my book it says they having anti psyker 3+, making them an okay go to for massed wounding some losers like 1k sons. 

Nuerotyrant and prime having ld4 SK being Ld10 with 10 S6 ap-2 2d attacks...

Is this the datasheets for combat patrol? if so why is the psychphage still anti psyker 2+?

Think we got hosed.


Edit, Also the neurotyrant is t5 in my book XD

might sound tin foil hat conspiracy, but to me this looks like last minute top management / upper mid management interference. rules / datasheets are published digitally and cards are printed as single sheet only, so not as much pre-production time needed compared to bound books. might be the books were already at the press, but rules / datasheets still could be changed. dunno, but doesnt give a good look tbh

[hivefleetkerrigan]

The data cards also needed to be printed, so they had to finalize it at some point, but probably after the leviathan box went to the printers.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Jun 26, 2023 6:18:31 GMT yoritomo said:

No, the broodlord and neurothrope were never unit champions. The broodlord started as an HQ choice back in 3rd edition and the neurothrope started as a HQ in 8th edition.

Neurothropes were a unit champion back in the 8e index when I started.

[No One]

Just went and checked all my books: I can't speak about before 5e, but from that point onward:

Broodlord was a unit sarge for 5e-7e, changed to HQ in 8e Index
Tyranid prime was a unit sarge for 5e, HQ from 6e
Neurothrope showed up as a unit sarge in the 7e Levi sup, changed to a HQ in 8e Codex.

So we've had no unit champions for an edition and a half, nothing amazing. Why they felt the need to bring them back but do nothing with them, especially when there's not even any other rule that matters for them (though there probably will be, at some point)...probably just wanted to do something with all the models, but didn't want to bother with a separate datasheet I guess (and also avoids the problem of people buying a box for just 1/3 dudes, which I can get behind)? i.e. Think it's partly 'simplified not simple', which is fine, partly laziness, which...less so.

Iryan said:

One thing I noticed is that in the Core Rules, in the example they use to show fast rolling of a shooting attack, they say fleshborers are AP-1, and calculate the damage against the terminators accordingly.

Oh wow, probably should've read that before now, but that's amusing.

[riverzora]

Compare also the Termagant datasheet we were given in an article with the rippers as attached extra wound models. It was theorised one of the datasheets was the normal termagant, and one was combat patrol termagants... and yet now we know it was neither. Just a random presumably accidentally shared alternate datasheet.

So who knows what the actual Codex will do to any of them.