10th ed index - your experience so far?

[Iryan]

Harridan is OC 0 because ALL aircraft is OC 0. Harpies and Crones are too.

[parzaius]

Jun 24, 2023 16:39:52 GMT acehilator said:

That's a BS take, and you know it. In the fluff, a basic Tac Marine is as tough as a 10th edition Terminator is on the tabletop.`

With your raging hateboner for imperial factions you are conveniently forgetting how long SM spent in the dumps during 8th and 9th (half the time or more), or how CWE are the most consistent strong faction in the history of 40k tabletop.

And what's next? Invul saves for Tyrant Guard? Cause they could use one? No thanks.

"Ryu wins every time in the story of Street Fighter, so why isn't he objectively stronger than every other fighter in the games?"

This is the mindset of Imperial players. The fluff is so hilariously one-sided that every novel may as well consist of the following line and nothing further: "Through challenges and sacrifices, the heroes of the Imperium won the day."

In the fluff, a single squad of marines can pacify an entire planet. Like, that's not even geographically possible, but that's just how huge they are in the fluff.

Also, I don't know what you're talking about for 8th and 9th editions. Marines were the single most played faction and the single winning-est faction through the overwhelming majority of 8th. The second Guard got nerfed, Marine Soup ruled the roost for like a year and a half. And the very moment that they started to fall behind due to codex creep, what this? Why it's a second marine codex, putting them right back at the peak again! And then they ruled all through the start of 9th, up till Nids came out. Then, after a year of Nids being good, they got nerfed and - what's this - Marines got a whole slew of new bonus rules and whoops there they go, back to the top again.

Synapse was always about "driving the beasts forward no matter the cost to life or limb," which has always just been 'no morale.' Except, then a bunch of other factions got 'no morale' or 'so good at morale that they'll never actually fail.' You look at something like Starship Troopers, where a single hit knocks out a marine for good, but you can blow off a whole limb and the basic bug is still 86% combat effective. That sure reads as "Feel No Pain" to me. But whoops, it's a xenos faction, so no luck Charlie.

[acehilator]

So, let me get this straight.

Imp factions are overpowered on the TT because they are in lore, which is bad.
Xenos factions are underpowered on the TT because of the imperial-centric lore, so we want the lore to be applied differently, so we would be OP instead?

Quick review of 9th edition stats tells me your recollection of events is... deeply flawed. Not going to bother with diggin up 8th, but I strongly suspect the same. Bobby G. Parking Lot and Azrael + Ancient Plasma Spam did not rule the first half of 8th. And Castallan + Loyal 32 is not a Guard list.

If you want to continue this conversation, shoot me a DM. This is getting highly off-topic.

[parzaius]

As of June 2023, Adeptus Astartes are the most played and most Winning faction for 23 weeks in a row (9th edition). Their streak was far, far larger in 8th edition. Consider taking a look at Bell of Lost Souls for their Competitive Events articles if you'd like to see how factions fare at high level play.

But you're right. This thread is for 10th edition events. I'll let you know how things go next week.

[HiveTyrant1978]

I’ve played against dark angels, eldar, and Marines

I love genestealers right now with a brood Lord, it is a very nice refreshing throwback to how they were back in 4th edition

But that’s about it

So far, the fact that all of our big Melee units are ap -2 has been a huge problem I have found people scoffing at my hive tyrants as they are no where near the threat they used to be in close combat

I have found shadow of the warp to be almost entirely useless

With the nerf to venom cannons and carnifexes only hitting on a four our general shooting is bad

We really only have four units that do work in shooting the biovores, exocrines, tyranofexes, and zoanthropes

The screamer killer only being one single creature and 180 points is not worth it

I’m offended personally by the fact my heirophant is ap -2 in melee

The barbed hierodule would be baller if it was ap -3 on its weapons

My battle with Eldar taught me it is okay to refuse to play someone
I beat them by objectives BUT he all but tabled me
Strands of fate is a garbage rule for garbage players and people playing elderad, 3 farseers on jet bikes, and 3 wraithknights with guardians should grounded from gaming for 3 weeks

My overall experience with the new nids has been pretty much negative
I play a lot of competitive players, so I get to stress test a lot of these things and so far not so good 10th isn’t bad the indexes aren’t balanced

[N.I.B.]

So if I get this right, if you have two Carnifexes in a unit they must stay that way throughout the game and can for instance be two-for-onned by Oath of Moment? Felt like a big drawback to have them stay as a single unit, when the second couldn't interrupt after the first was killed in cc.
And Zoanthrope psychic shooting is now stopped if an enemy unit get them into close combat?
Two big nerfs going under the radar.

[nidsallday]

Jun 27, 2023 7:59:40 GMT N.I.B. said:

So if I get this right, if you have two Carnifexes in a unit they must stay that way throughout the game and can for instance be two-for-onned by Oath of Moment? Felt like a big drawback to have them stay as a single unit, when the second couldn't interrupt after the first was killed in cc.
And Zoanthrope psychic shooting is now stopped if an enemy unit get them into close combat?
Two big nerfs going under the radar.

zoanthrope no melee shooting is a big thing indeed, and really hurts.
but 2 carnis staying as unit has pros and cons. def a drawback if targeted with oath, but a plus as you can use buffs per unit on both models (which you couldnt in 9th), e.g. the 5+++, 1CP for both, full hit rerolls with attached ooe.

[N.I.B.]

I feel the advantages of being in the same unit have more to do with niche situations and you spending cp (to be fair also easier to keep both in synapse), the drawbacks are from the basic game mechanics, like one that came up in my match - wounds spilling over in cc on the other Carnifex instead of being lost.

[nidsallday]

Jun 27, 2023 11:22:10 GMT N.I.B. said:

I feel the advantages of being in the same unit have more to do with niche situations and you spending cp (to be fair also easier to keep both in synapse), the drawbacks are from the basic game mechanics, like one that came up in my match - wounds spilling over in cc on the other Carnifex instead of being lost.

while you are not wrong that unit-buffs are no longer such a big thing (compared to psychic buffs in 9th), maybe we get smth back with the codex which benefits the 2x carni unit

nevertheless, if you dont choose to run more then three carnis anyway you could just put them as three one model units i guess. hence, while i agree that its not great, i still think its not a pure nerf but more a sidegrade

[No One]

Yeah: the other basic game mechanic where it's a pro is that it lets your 'front' unit drag your 'back' units into combat. If they're having to go in a line because of terrain etc, you get one charge to make instead of a serious of progressively harder ones.

[dkng]

Other upside is a pair of Carnifexes never have to take a standard Battleshock test as they’ll never have less than half the starting models.

[parzaius]

Played a Leviathan box game vs. Marines. Due to the points imbalance, he agreed to leave the Ballistus Dreadnought aside, so both teams were roughly equal points.

I lost my Neurogants turn 1 and my termagants turn 2. Despite the Leapers, Prime, and 20 Termagants all hitting the Terminator Librarian, they weren't able to take the guy down, just like the rest of my army shooting into the terminators. Despite this, however, the fact that he put all his characters into units meant that he had so many fewer units to hold onto objectives than me. I was able to sit on objectives with the monsters and barbgaunts and clinch it out to the end. Had he split his characters into their own units to hold objectives, while his terminators/sternguard are freed up to move around terrain and wipe out my units, things would've gone much, much worse for me. He gave up, after his Gambit cards proved unable to make up for a the points difference.

Despite the win, my main take away was that 2+ saves are as good as immortal against Tyranids. Had he been fielding the Apothecary that brings back a terminator every turn? Forget about it. The unit would be impossible to handle. The Screamer-Killer was the only thing remotely close to being able to deal with terminators, while the rest of the army broke itself on the shores of the unkillable terminators. Had he actually used the Ballistus Dreadnought? Hoo boy! We both agreed that it would've been a totally one-sided blowout for the marine victory. Nids struggle really hard against high saves, up down, and all around. The only thing that kept the marines from winning was the lower unit count, which he definitely would've just changed if we had time for a second game.

Barbgaunts: useful for slowing units, but useless against anything tougher than a default marine.
Leapers: Fight First is good, but ap -1 and 1 damage is really, REALLY bad.
Gants: Totally useless. They're just there to take a point for a turn or two and then you scoop them. There's no point for termagants when you could just take neurogants for 4pts instead.
Neurotyrant: Eh. The synapse bonus coverage is okay, I guess? The damage output is a joke.
Screamer-Killer: Pretty good! Had he brought the dreadnought, it would've been dead turn 1.
Psychophage: if you roll 6s, for shots, he's great! If you roll 1s, he's totally trash. Completely unreliable.
Winged Prime: Terrible. Wildly overcosted and unable to effect any real damage against any marine-toughness unit. A complete joke.
Synapse: Sucks. Bad range, weak effect.
Shadow in the Warp: useless. Marines made very single check, even with the -1 from the Neurotyrant.

Overall impressions: I won with nids, totally because the other guy played the marines poorly. A second game would've been a definitive marine win. And had he used all th Leviath models? Overwhelming marine victory even with massive misplays.

[autoxidation]

Jul 2, 2023 3:38:26 GMT parzaius said:

Played a Leviathan box game vs. Marines. Due to the points imbalance, he agreed to leave the Ballistus Dreadnought aside, so both teams were roughly equal points.

I lost my Neurogants turn 1 and my termagants turn 2. Despite the Leapers, Prime, and 20 Termagants all hitting the Terminator Librarian, they weren't able to take the guy down, just like the rest of my army shooting into the terminators. Despite this, however, the fact that he put all his characters into units meant that he had so many fewer units to hold onto objectives than me. I was able to sit on objectives with the monsters and barbgaunts and clinch it out to the end. Had he split his characters into their own units to hold objectives, while his terminators/sternguard are freed up to move around terrain and wipe out my units, things would've gone much, much worse for me. He gave up, after his Gambit cards proved unable to make up for a the points difference.

Despite the win, my main take away was that 2+ saves are as good as immortal against Tyranids. Had he been fielding the Apothecary that brings back a terminator every turn? Forget about it. The unit would be impossible to handle. The Screamer-Killer was the only thing remotely close to being able to deal with terminators, while the rest of the army broke itself on the shores of the unkillable terminators. Had he actually used the Ballistus Dreadnought? Hoo boy! We both agreed that it would've been a totally one-sided blowout for the marine victory. Nids struggle really hard against high saves, up down, and all around. The only thing that kept the marines from winning was the lower unit count, which he definitely would've just changed if we had time for a second game.

Barbgaunts: useful for slowing units, but useless against anything tougher than a default marine.
Leapers: Fight First is good, but ap -1 and 1 damage is really, REALLY bad.
Gants: Totally useless. They're just there to take a point for a turn or two and then you scoop them. There's no point for termagants when you could just take neurogants for 4pts instead.
Neurotyrant: Eh. The synapse bonus coverage is okay, I guess? The damage output is a joke.
Screamer-Killer: Pretty good! Had he brought the dreadnought, it would've been dead turn 1.
Psychophage: if you roll 6s, for shots, he's great! If you roll 1s, he's totally trash. Completely unreliable.
Winged Prime: Terrible. Wildly overcosted and unable to effect any real damage against any marine-toughness unit. A complete joke.
Synapse: Sucks. Bad range, weak effect.
Shadow in the Warp: useless. Marines made very single check, even with the -1 from the Neurotyrant.

Overall impressions: I won with nids, totally because the other guy played the marines poorly. A second game would've been a definitive marine win. And had he used all th Leviath models? Overwhelming marine victory even with massive misplays.

stormcoil's batrep shows that the Psychophage is quite effective against the Terminator unit with the Librarian attached due to the entire unit inheriting the psyker keyword. Ultimately it's a tough uphill battle though. Good job pulling out a win!

[parzaius]

Jul 2, 2023 4:29:55 GMT autoxidation said:

Jul 2, 2023 3:38:26 GMT parzaius said:

Played a Leviathan box game vs. Marines. Due to the points imbalance, he agreed to leave the Ballistus Dreadnought aside, so both teams were roughly equal points.

I lost my Neurogants turn 1 and my termagants turn 2. Despite the Leapers, Prime, and 20 Termagants all hitting the Terminator Librarian, they weren't able to take the guy down, just like the rest of my army shooting into the terminators. Despite this, however, the fact that he put all his characters into units meant that he had so many fewer units to hold onto objectives than me. I was able to sit on objectives with the monsters and barbgaunts and clinch it out to the end. Had he split his characters into their own units to hold objectives, while his terminators/sternguard are freed up to move around terrain and wipe out my units, things would've gone much, much worse for me. He gave up, after his Gambit cards proved unable to make up for a the points difference.

Despite the win, my main take away was that 2+ saves are as good as immortal against Tyranids. Had he been fielding the Apothecary that brings back a terminator every turn? Forget about it. The unit would be impossible to handle. The Screamer-Killer was the only thing remotely close to being able to deal with terminators, while the rest of the army broke itself on the shores of the unkillable terminators. Had he actually used the Ballistus Dreadnought? Hoo boy! We both agreed that it would've been a totally one-sided blowout for the marine victory. Nids struggle really hard against high saves, up down, and all around. The only thing that kept the marines from winning was the lower unit count, which he definitely would've just changed if we had time for a second game.

Barbgaunts: useful for slowing units, but useless against anything tougher than a default marine.
Leapers: Fight First is good, but ap -1 and 1 damage is really, REALLY bad.
Gants: Totally useless. They're just there to take a point for a turn or two and then you scoop them. There's no point for termagants when you could just take neurogants for 4pts instead.
Neurotyrant: Eh. The synapse bonus coverage is okay, I guess? The damage output is a joke.
Screamer-Killer: Pretty good! Had he brought the dreadnought, it would've been dead turn 1.
Psychophage: if you roll 6s, for shots, he's great! If you roll 1s, he's totally trash. Completely unreliable.
Winged Prime: Terrible. Wildly overcosted and unable to effect any real damage against any marine-toughness unit. A complete joke.
Synapse: Sucks. Bad range, weak effect.
Shadow in the Warp: useless. Marines made very single check, even with the -1 from the Neurotyrant.

Overall impressions: I won with nids, totally because the other guy played the marines poorly. A second game would've been a definitive marine win. And had he used all th Leviath models? Overwhelming marine victory even with massive misplays.

stormcoil's batrep shows that the Psychophage is quite effective against the Terminator unit with the Librarian attached due to the entire unit inheriting the psyker keyword. Ultimately it's a tough uphill battle though. Good job pulling out a win!

He was wise enough to not put the Librarian into a unit and let it by itself. Psychophage struggled do a single wound against the terminators without the anti-librarian boost. Honestly, every single unit didn't need a leader. He would've been better off leaving every leader as their own unit for locking objectives down while the marine units rampage across the field.

[bumbleb1492]

I've been playing this recently to good success facing down eldar, tau and thousand sons. Takeaways have been 3 biovores allow tyranids to max secondaries very easily. Tyrannofex overwatch can really hamper the opponent. One two punching with exocrines painting targets for zoanthropes has been really effective and outflanking one Squad of zoanthropes has been useful as well. Hive tyrants feel required for free stratagems often using it to give another Squad 5+++ after spending for it on another.

Gunline (2000 points)
Tyranids
Strike Force (2000 points)
Invasion Fleet


CHARACTER

Deathleaper (80 points)
• 1x Lictor claws and talons

Hive Tyrant (235 points)
• Warlord
• 1x Heavy venom cannon
1x Monstrous bonesword and lash whip
• Enhancement: Perfectly Adapted


OTHER DATASHEETS

Biovores (40 points)
• 1x Chitin-barbed limbs
1x Spore Mine launcher

Biovores (40 points)
• 1x Chitin-barbed limbs
1x Spore Mine launcher

Biovores (40 points)
• 1x Chitin-barbed limbs
1x Spore Mine launcher

Exocrine (135 points)
• 1x Bio-plasmic cannon
1x Powerful limbs

Exocrine (135 points)
• 1x Bio-plasmic cannon
1x Powerful limbs

Exocrine (135 points)
• 1x Bio-plasmic cannon
1x Powerful limbs

Haruspex (125 points)
• 1x Grasping tongue
1x Ravenous maw
1x Shovelling claws

Tyrannofex (200 points)
• 1x Acid spray
1x Powerful limbs
1x Stinger salvoes

Tyrannofex (200 points)
• 1x Acid spray
1x Powerful limbs
1x Stinger salvoes

Tyrant Guard (95 points)
• 3x Bone cleaver, lash whip and rending claws

Zoanthropes (180 points)
• 1x Neurothrope
• 1x Warp Blast
1x Xenos claws and teeth
• 5x Zoanthrope
• 5x Warp Blast
5x Xenos claws and teeth

Zoanthropes (180 points)
• 1x Neurothrope
• 1x Warp Blast
1x Xenos claws and teeth
• 5x Zoanthrope
• 5x Warp Blast
5x Xenos claws and teeth

Zoanthropes (180 points)
• 1x Neurothrope
• 1x Warp Blast
1x Xenos claws and teeth
• 5x Zoanthrope
• 5x Warp Blast
5x Xenos claws and teeth