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Post by nidsallday on Jun 17, 2023 20:01:21 GMT
Am I the only one that actually likes the warriors with ranged weapons? nah, i think they look pretty good for cheap synapse, not a whole lot of options there and 70pts is pretty nice |
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Post by Master Chief on Jun 17, 2023 20:19:58 GMT
70 points for 3x3 Wounds, T5 amd save 4+. Fall back, shoot and charge, decent melee impact with 5 attacks, S5 and AP-1, considering that melee is NOT their role. Fantastic on the second lines, fantastic as a cheap synapse, fantastic on the objectives and fantastic in cover. Even hitting on a 4+, good firepower overall considering that for 70 points you can bring 1 Barbed Strangler, 1 Venom Cannon and 1 Deathspitter. I honestly consider them amazing for what they bring and for how versatile they can be.  |
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Post by nidsallday on Jun 17, 2023 20:36:02 GMT
70 points for 3x3 Wounds, T5 amd save 4+. Fall back, shoot and charge, decent melee impact with 5 attacks, S5 and AP-1, considering that melee is NOT their role. Fantastic on the second lines, fantastic as a cheap synapse, fantastic on the objectives and fantastic in cover. Even hitting on a 4+, good firepower overall considering that for 70 points you can bring 1 Barbed Strangler, 1 Venom Cannon and 1 Deathspitter. I honestly consider them amazing for what they bring and for how versatile they can be. yeah exactly, and if you decide to go heavy on shooting exocrine helps with rr 1s, so even better then and with zoans 6++ and maybe a 5+++ strat dropped on them they shouldnt fall appart too quickly either |
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Post by infornography on Jun 18, 2023 13:42:22 GMT
I love that layered auras are back for nids though. Zoans, Venoms, Psychophage, and even the abilities of the Exocrine and Malceptor give bonuses to other units. I kinda feel like we don't need tyrants anymore. Neurotyrant for some extra synapse coverage and meaner SitW maybe, but if we keep our HQ cheap and focus on those layered auras for a core assault glob, we can push deep into enemy territory while individual ranged warrior MSUs grab objectives supported by some barbies, maybe with rippers waiting to support them in a pinch.
Maybe throw in a Cfex OOE unit and/or T-Fex for anti titan punch.
While I don't like the way points are being handled, I think we are in a solid place competitively. We definitely have some stinkers in the mix, but we are not hurting for good options.
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Post by nidsallday on Jun 18, 2023 14:31:55 GMT
I love that layered auras are back for nids though. Zoans, Venoms, Psychophage, and even the abilities of the Exocrine and Malceptor give bonuses to other units. I kinda feel like we don't need tyrants anymore. Neurotyrant for some extra synapse coverage and meaner SitW maybe, but if we keep our HQ cheap and focus on those layered auras for a core assault glob, we can push deep into enemy territory while individual ranged warrior MSUs grab objectives supported by some barbies, maybe with rippers waiting to support them in a pinch. Maybe throw in a Cfex OOE unit and/or T-Fex for anti titan punch. While I don't like the way points are being handled, I think we are in a solid place competitively. We definitely have some stinkers in the mix, but we are not hurting for good options. while i fully agree with all of your comment it seems the 6++ from zoans is meh at best. in another thread someone already posted a quick feedback of his first 10th test-game and according to him the 6++ didnt come into play very often. got me a bit confused, but then i checked ap and it seems like ap-2 (at best ap-3) are the best typical anti elite weapons of armies. if you then take cover into consideration the 6++ is only necessary for anti tank weapons or super bad saving units (gants/gaunts/rippers). but nevertheless, the discussions in the past few days got me pretty interessted. looking forward to seeing how 10th turns out. |
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Post by Iryan on Jun 18, 2023 14:36:19 GMT
Gaunts having their save upped from 6+ to 5+ certainly makes it a lot less likely for them to need that invuln.
Clearly you use that 6++ to protect those screens of poor saveless spore mines you deployed with your biovores!
...that might actually be a fun silly thing (if not necessarily a good thing). Keep launching mass spore mines and make them much more annoying to deal with through 6++ and stealth auras...
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Post by parzaius on Jun 18, 2023 14:56:41 GMT
As an addition note to how the zoanthrope's aura is a lot more feeble than you might think, the Maleceptor's aura seems pretty bad. It has to be right up in the other guy's business, which means they're very likely to just charge you. Then, you can't use your Blast psychic power on any units in combat with you, and you get -1 to hit with it against an unengaged unit nearby when there's anybody at all who gets in your face. And when they do get into combat with you, the Maleceptor's melee is quite bad; unlike almost every other Strike/Sweep weapon profile, it's strike is a meager +2 Str boost to the pitiful 3 attacks, and it's sweep is an insultingly low 6 attacks. That's like 1 dead marine.
Add to that that some units (terminators) are immune to the -1 to hit/wound from your 6" aura and you're just way better off keeping the Maleceptor at 18" range and ignoring his aura completely. It's VASTLY weaker than its old version and, to be honest, pretty useless.
Venomthropes, however, are champs. By all means, go nuts with that stuff.
EDIT: though, Venomthropes did lose their shooting weapon, got their melee nerfed, lost 2 points of movement, lost a wound, lost their mortal wound powers, and don't extend stealth to monsters/vehicles, unlike the similarly-costed (compared to a full squad) Ravenwing Darkshroud. So, actually, it's probably not worth spamming them, but they're still decent in squads of 3 since they're 30% cheaper than they were in 9th.
Boy, it sure is a shame Nids don't have anything to trigger off of Critical Wounds, to make those Anti-infantry abilities do work!
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Post by nidsallday on Jun 18, 2023 15:23:52 GMT
As an addition note to how the zoanthrope's aura is a lot more feeble than you might think, the Maleceptor's aura seems pretty bad. It has to be right up in the other guy's business, which means they're very likely to just charge you. Then, you can't use your Blast psychic power on any units in combat with you, and you get -1 to hit with it against an unengaged unit nearby when there's anybody at all who gets in your face. And when they do get into combat with you, the Maleceptor's melee is quite bad; unlike almost every other Strike/Sweep weapon profile, it's strike is a meager +2 Str boost to the pitiful 3 attacks, and it's sweep is an insultingly low 6 attacks. That's like 1 dead marine. Add to that that some units (terminators) are immune to the -1 to hit/wound from your 6" aura and you're just way better off keeping the Maleceptor at 18" range and ignoring his aura completely. It's VASTLY weaker than its old version and, to be honest, pretty useless. Venomthropes, however, are champs. By all means, go nuts with that stuff. EDIT: though, Venomthropes did lose their shooting weapon, got their melee nerfed, lost 2 points of movement, lost a wound, lost their mortal wound powers, and don't extend stealth to monsters/vehicles, unlike the similarly-costed (compared to a full squad) Ravenwing Darkshroud. So, actually, it's probably not worth spamming them, but they're still decent in squads of 3 since they're 30% cheaper than they were in 9th. Boy, it sure is a shame Nids don't have anything to trigger off of Critical Wounds, to make those Anti-infantry abilities do work! yeah, a devastating wound strat would be amazing with the anti-infantry and would counteract their abysmal ap0 (would make them usable against custodes or space marines). |
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Post by parzaius on Jun 18, 2023 15:26:11 GMT
As an addition note to how the zoanthrope's aura is a lot more feeble than you might think, the Maleceptor's aura seems pretty bad. It has to be right up in the other guy's business, which means they're very likely to just charge you. Then, you can't use your Blast psychic power on any units in combat with you, and you get -1 to hit with it against an unengaged unit nearby when there's anybody at all who gets in your face. And when they do get into combat with you, the Maleceptor's melee is quite bad; unlike almost every other Strike/Sweep weapon profile, it's strike is a meager +2 Str boost to the pitiful 3 attacks, and it's sweep is an insultingly low 6 attacks. That's like 1 dead marine. Add to that that some units (terminators) are immune to the -1 to hit/wound from your 6" aura and you're just way better off keeping the Maleceptor at 18" range and ignoring his aura completely. It's VASTLY weaker than its old version and, to be honest, pretty useless. Venomthropes, however, are champs. By all means, go nuts with that stuff. EDIT: though, Venomthropes did lose their shooting weapon, got their melee nerfed, lost 2 points of movement, lost a wound, lost their mortal wound powers, and don't extend stealth to monsters/vehicles, unlike the similarly-costed (compared to a full squad) Ravenwing Darkshroud. So, actually, it's probably not worth spamming them, but they're still decent in squads of 3 since they're 30% cheaper than they were in 9th. Boy, it sure is a shame Nids don't have anything to trigger off of Critical Wounds, to make those Anti-infantry abilities do work! yeah, a devastating wound strat would be amazing with the anti-infantry and would counteract their abysmal ap0 (would make them usable against custodes or space marines). A strat to add Devestating Wounds would also make the Toxicrene worth is outrageous price tag. |
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Post by LordPathos on Jun 18, 2023 18:11:24 GMT
Stratagems should not fix units. Especially in an edition where CP is limited. Unfortunately, I feel I won't be bringing Toxicrenes during our index phase. But if I can spam other TMCs in its place, I'm a happy Space Dino.
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Post by gauntlet on Jun 18, 2023 19:01:26 GMT
Wording of Endless Swarm Stratagem does not prohibit use more than once, on same unit, with Hive Tyrant, Will of the Hive Mind.
If you have unit hormoguants x20 and termagants x 20 and Hive Tyrants x3, you can be bringing back on average 208 points of guants(32 models) every turn. And if you don't need more guants that turn, or the Strategem is +1CP taxed, you can still use the free CP on other Strategems. Even 4 of the same Strategem per turn.
Oh wait...
Will of the Hive Mind... even if another unit from your army has already been targeted...
So you would have to invest in 8 guant units so you don't repeat use on same unit each turn.
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Post by Iryan on Jun 18, 2023 19:30:41 GMT
Wording of Endless Swarm Stratagem does not prohibit use more than once, on same unit, with Hive Tyrant, Will of the Hive Mind.If you have unit hormoguants x20 and termagants x 20 and Hive Tyrants x3, you can be bringing back on average 208 points of guants(32 models) every turn. And if you don't need more guants that turn, or the Strategem is +1CP taxed, you can still use the free CP on other Strategems. Even 4 of the same Strategem per turn. Oh wait... Will of the Hive Mind... even if another unit from your army has already been targeted... So you would have to invest in 8 guant units so you don't repeat use on same unit each turn. The real problem is that the wording of Will of the Hive Mind is such that having multiple hive tyrants just extends your range for the ability, but does not grant more than one use per turn. So you are only gonna get 2 uses of this stratagem per battle round, for an average of 10 models per turn (assuming you have units with enough missing to use the strat). |
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Post by dkng on Jun 18, 2023 20:08:07 GMT
With WotHM you can use the Endless Swarm two times per turn on up to three units (provided they’re in Synapse range). The second use cannot extend to another unit so you can’t regenerate four units.
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Post by Iryan on Jun 18, 2023 20:16:23 GMT
With WotHM you can use the Endless Swarm two times per turn on up to three units (provided they’re in Synapse range). The second use cannot extend to another unit so you can’t regenerate four units. That is another point I am curious about. We have some strats that can target either one unit, or TWO units that are within synapse range. With WotHM, I assume you can only target one unit for these strats, but I am not 100% sure. If you could target two, that would be pretty amazing. I do not expect it, but a FAQ is probably gonna clear that up in the near future. |
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Post by dkng on Jun 18, 2023 20:19:01 GMT
No need for FAQ, the wording of WotHM is clear:
„Once per turn, one friendly Tyranids unit within 12" of one or more models with this ability can be targeted with a Stratagem for 0CP”
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