|
|
Post by patata on Mar 13, 2023 17:19:18 GMT
Hello guys,i went to a tournament and this guy went 2/1 in a 22 people tournament and arrived 6th,but i really can under stand some choices or how didn't he get tabled turn 1(broodlord/naked warriors/genestealers???)
As secondaries i'm pretty sure he took either spore nodes/cranial feasing/behind enemy Lines and idk what else
++ Arks of Omen Detachment (Tyranids) [97 PL, 1CP, 2,000pts] ++
+ Configuration +
Arks of Omen Compulsory Type: Troops
Battle Size [6CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Detachment Command Cost
Game Type: 5. Chapter Approved: Arks of Omen
Hive Fleet: (Lurk) Naturalised Camouflage, Behemoth
+ Stratagems +
Hive Predator [-1CP]: Extra Warlord Trait
Hive Predator [-1CP]: Extra Warlord Trait
Rarefied Enhancements [-1CP]: Extra Bio-artefact
Relic [-1CP]
Stratagem: Heroic Support [-1CP]
+ No Force Org Slot +
Broodlord [6 PL, 120pts]: Power: Paroxysm, Power: Unstoppable Onslaught
Tyrant Guard [15 PL, 180pts]
. 4x Tyrant Guard (Scything): 4x Two Rending Claws, 4x Two Scything Talons
+ HQ +
Hive Tyrant [9 PL, 210pts]: Adrenal Glands, Heavy Venom Cannon, Lash Whip and Monstrous Bonesword, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: Smite, Power: The Horror, Power: Unstoppable Onslaught, Relic: Shardgullet, Warlord
Neurothrope [5 PL, 110pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Onslaught, Power: Unstoppable Onslaught, Warlord Trait: Direct Guidance
Winged Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 245pts]: Adrenal Glands, Lash Whip and Monstrous Bonesword, Power: Neuroparasite, Power: Paroxysm, Power: Smite, Power: Unstoppable Onslaught, Relic: The Reaper of Obilterax, Warlord Trait: Adaptive Biology
+ Troops +
Hormagaunts [4 PL, 100pts]: Adrenal Glands
. 10x Hormagaunt: 10x Hormagaunt Talons
Hormagaunts [4 PL, 100pts]: Adrenal Glands
. 10x Hormagaunt: 10x Hormagaunt Talons
Hormagaunts [4 PL, 80pts]
. 10x Hormagaunt: 10x Hormagaunt Talons
Tyranid Warriors [8 PL, 170pts]: Adrenal Glands
. Tyranid Warrior: Devourer, Two Rending Claws
. Tyranid Warrior: Devourer, Two Rending Claws
. Tyranid Warrior: Two Rending Claws, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior: Devourer, Two Rending Claws
. Tyranid Warrior: Devourer, Two Rending Claws
Tyranid Warriors [4 PL, 95pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Devourer, Two Rending Claws
. Tyranid Warrior: Devourer, Two Rending Claws
. Tyranid Warrior: Two Rending Claws, Venom Cannon
+ Elites +
Deathleaper [5 PL, 120pts]
Genestealers [5 PL, 80pts]
. 5x Genestealer: 5x Genestealer Claws and Talons
+ Fast Attack +
Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 45pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm
+ Heavy Support +
Carnifexes [8 PL, 175pts]
. Carnifex: Adaptive Physiology: Voracious Ammunition, Enhanced Senses, Heavy Venom Cannon, Spore Cysts, Two Carnifex Scything Talons
Carnifexes [7 PL, 170pts]
. Carnifex: Enhanced Senses, Heavy Venom Cannon, Spore Cysts, Two Carnifex Crushing Claws
++ Total: [97 PL, 1CP, 2,000pts] ++
|
|
|
|
Post by turtletyrant on Mar 13, 2023 20:03:56 GMT
I feel like the warriors are there just to present a somewhat tough target, especially with 2+ armor save in cover.
while the rest of the army does BEL, spore nodes/banners and warp ritual?
ritual is a pretty easy max for tyranids, unless the opponent has a 4+ deny stratagem.
BEL with flyrant, stealers, BL and deathleaper should also get you good 10/12 points.
and spore nodes/banners.. well i played a tournament yesterday and took spore nodes (misison was death and zeal)... a 10 man squad of hormagaunts deployed straight into his deployment in turn 3.. did spores. got attacked and 1 survived and passed morale on a 1 (huge luck on my part).. ran 10" did another spore.. the opponent tried to charge but failed a 6" charge. (another huge luck). and so i managed to do 3 spores (12 VP) with 1 unit of gaunts (90 points- had toxin sacs). did another spores turn 2 so i maxed it out. but otherwise the spore nodes secondary suffers from being only doable by troops and can only start turn 2.
If he played against a melee army, it should be easily doable, otherwise it is risky (also depends on how the terrain is positioned and how easily you can hide the gaunts)
|
|
|
|
Post by patata on Mar 13, 2023 20:13:25 GMT
I feel like the warriors are there just to present a somewhat tough target, especially with 2+ armor save in cover. while the rest of the army does BEL, spore nodes/banners and warp ritual? ritual is a pretty easy max for tyranids, unless the opponent has a 4+ deny stratagem. BEL with flyrant, stealers, BL and deathleaper should also get you good 10/12 points. and spore nodes/banners.. well i played a tournament yesterday and took spore nodes (misison was death and zeal)... a 10 man squad of hormagaunts deployed straight into his deployment in turn 3.. did spores. got attacked and 1 survived and passed morale on a 1 (huge luck on my part).. ran 10" did another spore.. the opponent tried to charge but failed a 6" charge. (another huge luck). and so i managed to do 3 spores (12 VP) with 1 unit of gaunts (90 points- had toxin sacs). did another spores turn 2 so i maxed it out. but otherwise the spore nodes secondary suffers from being only doable by troops and can only start turn 2. If he played against a melee army, it should be easily doable, otherwise it is risky (also depends on how the terrain is positioned and how easily you can hide the gaunts) yeah but idk,tables are pretty good on cover,so i feel that helped,but idk, a broodlord looks just bad,genestealers i can only understand for feeder tendrils somewhat,i`ll try it just to scratch the itch |
|
|
|
Post by No One on Mar 14, 2023 1:19:48 GMT
They...hide. Also having +2 to save from cover+camo's pretty nice. I wouldn't be surprised if they were playing something wrong though, namely Broodlord imperative with camo, despite: Doesn't make too much sense in the list otherwise (is forward deploy infantry/psyker, but still pricey for that). Stealers are just forward deploy with a solid melee profile. and spore nodes/banners.. well i played a tournament yesterday and took spore nodes (misison was death and zeal)... a 10 man squad of hormagaunts deployed straight into his deployment in turn 3.. did spores. got attacked and 1 survived and passed morale on a 1 (huge luck on my part).. ran 10" did another spore.. the opponent tried to charge but failed a 6" charge. (another huge luck). and so i managed to do 3 spores (12 VP) with 1 unit of gaunts (90 points- had toxin sacs). did another spores turn 2 so i maxed it out. but otherwise the spore nodes secondary suffers from being only doable by troops and can only start turn 2. If he played against a melee army, it should be easily doable, otherwise it is risky (also depends on how the terrain is positioned and how easily you can hide the gaunts) Also with no gargs, I doubt spore nodes is a planned secondary. More likely just banners with stealers+BL, though I'd have expected alien cunning on DL. The other bit I find a bit questionable is the carnis in a camo list...oh, they have spore cysts. Yeah, I think that'd be why they were taken... |
|
|
|
Post by turtletyrant on Mar 14, 2023 14:53:41 GMT
They...hide. Also having +2 to save from cover+camo's pretty nice. I wouldn't be surprised if they were playing something wrong though, namely Broodlord imperative with camo, despite: Doesn't make too much sense in the list otherwise (is forward deploy infantry/psyker, but still pricey for that). Stealers are just forward deploy with a solid melee profile. and spore nodes/banners.. well i played a tournament yesterday and took spore nodes (misison was death and zeal)... a 10 man squad of hormagaunts deployed straight into his deployment in turn 3.. did spores. got attacked and 1 survived and passed morale on a 1 (huge luck on my part).. ran 10" did another spore.. the opponent tried to charge but failed a 6" charge. (another huge luck). and so i managed to do 3 spores (12 VP) with 1 unit of gaunts (90 points- had toxin sacs). did another spores turn 2 so i maxed it out. but otherwise the spore nodes secondary suffers from being only doable by troops and can only start turn 2. If he played against a melee army, it should be easily doable, otherwise it is risky (also depends on how the terrain is positioned and how easily you can hide the gaunts) Also with no gargs, I doubt spore nodes is a planned secondary. More likely just banners with stealers+BL, though I'd have expected alien cunning on DL. The other bit I find a bit questionable is the carnis in a camo list...oh, they have spore cysts. Yeah, I think that'd be why they were taken... would gargs actually be a better option? even with a 24" distance between, it still takes gaunts the same 2 turns to get within 6" from the enemy DZ, and from my experience runnning 45 gaunts and 20 gargs.. the gaunts are easier to hide on smaller bases and are smaller in size. and the 5+ vs 6+ armor can sometimes just make the difference. only thing the gargs have going for them, is the fly keyword so they can ignore containers and such and if the enemy has a large enough army to screen you, they can fly over them. i tried the nat camo, looks good, doesn't work very well for monsters, unless there is plenty of dense cover on the map or the carnies just hide in one forest/vent and receive dense cover and +2 on the armor save
|
|
|
|
Post by No One on Mar 15, 2023 0:37:48 GMT
would gargs actually be a better option? even with a 24" distance between, it still takes gaunts the same 2 turns to get within 6" from the enemy DZ, and from my experience runnning 45 gaunts and 20 gargs.. the gaunts are easier to hide on smaller bases and are smaller in size. and the 5+ vs 6+ armor can sometimes just make the difference. only thing the gargs have going for them, is the fly keyword so they can ignore containers and such and if the enemy has a large enough army to screen you, they can fly over them. Encircle. Doesn't work at all for monsters: benefit of cover from terrain is the whole within area terrain/within 3" obstacle for infantry etc. Dense is just a hit penalty: |
|
|
|
Post by turtletyrant on Mar 15, 2023 16:04:44 GMT
would gargs actually be a better option? even with a 24" distance between, it still takes gaunts the same 2 turns to get within 6" from the enemy DZ, and from my experience runnning 45 gaunts and 20 gargs.. the gaunts are easier to hide on smaller bases and are smaller in size. and the 5+ vs 6+ armor can sometimes just make the difference. only thing the gargs have going for them, is the fly keyword so they can ignore containers and such and if the enemy has a large enough army to screen you, they can fly over them. Encircle. Doesn't work at all for monsters: benefit of cover from terrain is the whole within area terrain/within 3" obstacle for infantry etc. Dense is just a hit penalty:
*encircle* .. oh.. oooh nice. that hasn't crossed my mind.
As for naturalised camo.. the rule doesn't state which cover you need to have for the +1 armor to be applied, just that you need to be recieving benefits of cover from terrain feature, therefore dense cover still applies cover to from a terrain feature and should still apply +1 armor save. Similary if an exocrine would shoot at a carnifex with nat camo in woods, it would not recieve benefits of cover, therefore it would not gain +1 to the armor save and no -1 to hit.
Atleast that would be my understanding of the rule.
|
|
|
|
Post by piersonsmuppet on Mar 15, 2023 17:09:35 GMT
“Benefits of Cover” is only granted by the Area Terrain and Obstacle features, neither grants BoC to monsters. Dense Cover can give the -1 to-hit to models even when they do not have BoC.
Nat Camo is not negated when an attacking unit ignores cover. Ignoring cover only negates bonuses granted by Terrain Traits; Light, Heavy, and Dense Cover.
|
|
|
|
Post by turtletyrant on Mar 15, 2023 18:31:48 GMT
“Benefits of Cover” is only granted by the Area Terrain and Obstacle features, neither grants BoC to monsters. Dense Cover can give the -1 to-hit to models even when they do not have BoC. Nat Camo is not negated when an attacking unit ignores cover. Ignoring cover only negates bonuses granted by Terrain Traits; Light, Heavy, and Dense Cover.
I was completely confused about this.
I went and double checked and read carefully the core rules, now i understand what you and no one are talking about 
cheers.
|
|
|
|
Post by trashcan01 on Mar 28, 2023 12:43:32 GMT
“Benefits of Cover” is only granted by the Area Terrain and Obstacle features, neither grants BoC to monsters. Dense Cover can give the -1 to-hit to models even when they do not have BoC. Nat Camo is not negated when an attacking unit ignores cover. Ignoring cover only negates bonuses granted by Terrain Traits; Light, Heavy, and Dense Cover. So, piersonsmuppet , if my Fex is in Dense Cover (let's say from a forrest), does this trigger Natural Camouflage?  Natural Camouflage Adaptive is useless for monsters? - ready for "NOOOOOOOOOOooooooo" scene - |
|
|
|
Post by turtletyrant on Mar 28, 2023 13:05:32 GMT
“Benefits of Cover” is only granted by the Area Terrain and Obstacle features, neither grants BoC to monsters. Dense Cover can give the -1 to-hit to models even when they do not have BoC. Nat Camo is not negated when an attacking unit ignores cover. Ignoring cover only negates bonuses granted by Terrain Traits; Light, Heavy, and Dense Cover. So, piersonsmuppet , if my Fex is in Dense Cover (let's say from a forrest), does this trigger Natural Camouflage? Natural Camouflage Adaptive is useless for monsters? - ready for "NOOOOOOOOOOooooooo" scene -
If i understood correctly, then the anwser is no. The core rules state: INFANTRY, BEAST and SWARM models receive the benefits of cover from Area Terrain features while they are within it.
So fex as a monster does not receive benefit of cover and therefore does not receive nat camo bonus, BUT the opponent does recieve -1 to hit, because he is shooting through dense cover. |
|
|
|
Post by piersonsmuppet on Mar 28, 2023 16:27:14 GMT
Nat Camo is useless for Monsters.
|
|
|
|
Post by trashcan01 on Mar 28, 2023 17:28:06 GMT
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooo
|
|
|
|
Post by dkng on Mar 28, 2023 19:42:56 GMT
What about the rare rule that says about getting benefits of cover while not in cover? Doesnt shooting through a Dense cover count as benefits of cover?
|
|
|
|
Post by trashcan01 on Mar 28, 2023 20:31:08 GMT
Well, if I understand it correctly: it is not that they have benefit of cover, but rather the opponent has a hit penalty.  |
|
