Homage to Cmob's custom tyranid fleet

[wcgnidz]

So watching the Tactical tortoise stream of their latest season of tabletop simulator 40k, I saw a list that's done pretty decently for a nid player(online name Cmob).

His list is SLIGHTLY different than mine(he lacks the walking tyrant i'm using but has another maleceptor). Custom hive fleet for monsters having obsec+counts as 5 models, ALSO being able to fall back and shoot. Starts with 2cp






++ Arks of Omen Detachment (Tyranids) [93 PL, 2CP, 2,000pts] ++

Compulsory Type: Elites

Hive Fleet

. Other: (Hunt) Heightened Reflexes, (Lurk) Territorial Instincts, Feed


Hive Predator [-1CP]: Extra Warlord Trait



Rarefied Enhancements [-2CP]: 2x Extra Bio-artefact



Stratagem: Heroic Support [-1CP]



+ HQ +



Hive Tyrant [9 PL, 195pts]: Heavy Venom Cannon, Lash Whip and Monstrous Bonesword, Relic: Shardgullet, Warlord



Neurothrope [5 PL, 110pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Onslaught



Neurothrope [5 PL, 110pts]: Power: Onslaught, Power: Paroxysm



Winged Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 245pts]: Adrenal Glands, Lash Whip and Monstrous Bonesword, Power: Paroxysm, Power: Psychic Scream, Relic: The Reaper of Obilterax, Warlord Trait: Adaptive Biology



+ Elites +



Lictor [4 PL, 70pts]



Lictor [4 PL, 70pts]



Maleceptor [9 PL, 220pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Neuroparasite



Maleceptor [9 PL, 220pts]: Power: Psychic Scream, Power: The Horror



Tyrant Guard [8 PL, 135pts]

. 3x Tyrant Guard (Lash/Sword): 3x Lash Whip and Bonecleaver, 3x Two Rending Claws



+ Heavy Support +



Exocrine [9 PL, 200pts]



Exocrine [9 PL, 200pts]



Exocrine [11 PL, 225pts]: Adaptive Physiology: Dermic Symbiosis



++ Total: [93 PL, 2CP, 2,000pts] ++




It's a simple list. It's a skew obviously. The list isn't super CP hungry. The biggest challenge besides hiding out of line of sight completely with ALL the 15 w monsters is of course the secondary game is pretty garbage. Warp ritual or interrogation is easy enough, and behind enemy lines or engage on all fronts tends to be my number 2 pick. This list doesn't do passive. You MUST make your opponent lose on primary or table them. I'm 3-1 with this list currently and it's...janky. But a lot of fun. 3 of the 4 games have been into Imperial Knights, with the only loss being Imperial Knights. My most recent game of 84-80 in terms of score, I actually managed to TABLE the knight player turn 4(he had 2 baby knights end of turn 3). I was concerned going into it because he actually managed to give me a 4 and a 0 for my first 2 turns of primary, but that ended up flipped and he picked one poor secondary(and the mission bonus primary got me 10 points- hold center/kill unit off center).

The tyrants basically don't need to hide? Provided T-guard are out of line of sight, the tyrants are "visible" with a lictor immediately in front of them touching terrain such that the lictors are always the closest model(but the enemy guns are out of 12" so they can't shoot the lictor despite him being a valid target). Then cp invisible hunter a lictor more or less any turn one is alive to score behind enemy lines(assuming I didn't pick engage, which I usually won't because the list is 12 units only 8 of which can score engage).

Share your thoughts. Ideas for improvement. I don't think this is some amazing omfg this is da wei for nids to win list, but it feels pretty strong in my early playtesting. But I'm also biased because while I loved the hormagant lists I've tried(behemoth and gorgon, stacking core buffs etc) as well as a weird fringe jorm 9x 95 pt unit of warriors list(VC)  the one matchup that was really just pissing me off was Knights. Their whole obsec and 5 models thing was just making a fool of me for some reason. BUT OH HOW THE TURN TABLES. 

[piersonsmuppet]

Fallback and Shoot combines well with our units that dodged the Jan nerfs: Pyros, Exos, Tfex, Walkrants, Gants. List will perform solid and can trade any amount of Exos for Tfex for some flexibility for different metas (GSC heavy). Reaper Flyrant is an interesting inclusion, probably a choice based on terrain/opposition.


Edit: I should add that I like the 2 Neuro inclusion for BEL. I've used this tactic before in Nephilim w/ Gestation Sac: pulling a Neuro T3 with Encircle the Prey and dropping it in the backfield T4 is basically 6 VP in AoO. Very few armies can kill a 6W T5 3++ body with a backfield unit in one turn. Going T2 Lictor, T3 Lictor, T4/5 Neuro would be a very easy 12VP, with decent potential for more if they fail to drop a Lictor.

[wcgnidz]

Feb 23, 2023 14:56:00 GMT piersonsmuppet said:

Fallback and Shoot combines well with our units that dodged the Jan nerfs: Pyros, Exos, Tfex, Walkrants, Gants. List will perform solid and can trade any amount of Exos for Tfex for some flexibility for different metas (GSC heavy). Reaper Flyrant is an interesting inclusion, probably a choice based on terrain/opposition.


Edit: I should add that I like the 2 Neuro inclusion for BEL. I've used this tactic before in Nephilim w/ Gestation Sac: pulling a Neuro T3 with Encircle the Prey and dropping it in the backfield T4 is basically 6 VP in AoO. Very few armies can kill a 6W T5 3++ body with a backfield unit in one turn. Going T2 Lictor, T3 Lictor, T4/5 Neuro would be a very easy 12VP, with decent potential for more if they fail to drop a Lictor.

Absolutely a strong option on the encircle the prey. Depending on the enemy I MIGHT consider banners? Probably not but if it's a mostly shooty army, the TG being able to banner my home and the lictors doing banners isn't the worst thing in the world(especially lictors paired with maleceptor imperative) since Invisible hunter unlike encircle happens end of turn, so I can complete my banner then get off the board. But it's definitely not my strongest move. Just a fringe option that a smart opponent will capitalize on. mayhaps a contemplate vs votan since they're slower idk(I'm yet to play into votan). 

So watching Trevy on Tactical Tortoise(who feels very sour on nids atm), when he runs nids his lists tend to be a little different. He's noted massively missing the mortal output nids recently had as voiced he feels the army needed that mortals to compete as the high end damage for nids isn't amazing in any one particular phase(i am paraphrasing his words). He commented on Cmob's list and noted he felt like it was too reliant on the maleceptors living(with the lists' original designed running 3 however, chances are one was surviving) and a bad turn there could just mean GG. I mean he isn't WRONG but also they're T8 4++ with the option for transhuman and possible -1 incoming strength.  

Speaking to trevy's noted weakness of nids lacking the mortal oomph from zoans, THIS style list does NOT lack psychic power. I've got all the powers, lots of redundancies. And not having a fleet specific power means frankly, there's usually at least one psyker who's not doing anything meaningful even turn 2. 

[piersonsmuppet]

Vs a list that can kill 2+ Malceptors in one turn, I'd just reserve them. They are already great out of reserves since they ignore LoS, and the Neuro imperative can be used to overcome the loss of the 3d6 tests. Reduced MW output is still better than no MW output. The argument that Malceptors are too at risk of dying before doing anything was good prior to free Strat Reserves, now it seems dated and almost irrelevant.

Edit: TT has failed to move on from comparing AoO lists to the OP Kraken lists, pretty useless imo (though good for at least showcasing lists even if the analysis is bunk).

[wcgnidz]

Feb 23, 2023 18:43:03 GMT piersonsmuppet said:

Edit: TT has failed to move on from comparing AoO lists to the OP Kraken lists, pretty useless imo (though good for at least showcasing lists even if the analysis is bunk).

Yeah I mean IDK. I find his content super enjoyable generally, and watching him play his list recently there's a lot of salt coming through. I get it. Zoanthropes are my fave nid and they caught a criminal nerf imo.

He isn't wrong about all of his grievances. But I do think he's overly harsh. He's got a good head for the game, I think running his circuits gives him a better sense of things than I do TBH. But I still see nids in the event data doing better than a lot of doomers had been proclaiming the last round of nerfs. Do I think nids take the next big supermajor? No. But this man has it in his head they're the worst army in the game and more or less outright says it during his games(and the data isn't reflecting that atm). That said his takes are still good info, just to be taken with a grain of salt. 


So far AoO has actually matched my predictions(I'm just a guy who keeps guessing right). I said first weekend we'd be in the 30% range somewhere, but that it'd level out into the low 40's. The player population is still high relative to most factions, so the data isn't bad. And we're gonna see people gradually shift away from builds that aren't working anymore. 

All of that to say, I was weirdly doing way better with crusher stampede hive guard BS before the new nid dex(at tournaments). So shifting to this style of play where my monsters have obsec and I have shooting that can't be easily interacted with feels pretty in my lane. 

[No One]

wcgnidz said:

Share your thoughts. Ideas for improvement. I don't think this is some amazing omfg this is da wei for nids to win list, but it feels pretty strong in my early playtesting. But I'm also biased because while I loved the hormagant lists I've tried(behemoth and gorgon, stacking core buffs etc) as well as a weird fringe jorm 9x 95 pt unit of warriors list(VC) the one matchup that was really just pissing me off was Knights. Their whole obsec and 5 models thing was just making a fool of me for some reason. BUT OH HOW THE TURN TABLES.

I've been enjoying a similar style (https://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/post/1013789/thread) and while I don't think it's necessarily the way, I think it's quite viable, and the general concept is probably the only competitively viable alternative to some horde/scoring based build.

Anyway, as is think you should put either res barb or tendrils on a neuro (prob tendrils, way more flexible): you really want onslaught going off, but you also don't want half your 'cepters unbuffed.

The maybes:
- I think patho>shardgullet tbh: just a way more consistent upgrade
- Not sure how I feel about reaper flyrant with overrun and points nerf
- The neuro and BEL tech is definitely interesting: not sure how I feel about it over something to shore up your primary/general on board gameplan, but definitely interesting (and of course more durable healing psychic and 3d6 doesn't go amiss for that either). Don't know if I'm not quite liking it just because I'm used to fully using my lictor on board (making bouncing for BEL, and thus BEL in general, bad), or because it's a weaker option than that.
- As above I like the idea of an exos or two (what's exactly the plan there as well?) to t-fex for more durability/flexibility, but the list is fairly tight as is and it's not as clear cut what's better even pushing mid with the fall back and shoot adapt

Warp ritual or interrogation is easy enough, and behind enemy lines or engage on all fronts tends to be my number 2 pick.

Banners is absolutely a pick for this style as well: you mightn't quite have enough random infantry to manage it in the list, but double lictor, t-guard and neuros can as well in a pinch should mean it's possible. Works very well with the general gameplan (usually): lictors walk onto a point, banners and protect the tyrants or just be very difficult to shift to secure primary. It's not as great with wanting to take BEL, but I think it's still plenty viable: essentially means you've got "2.5" good secondaries built into the list, where you don't really want to take both, but can if a kill's absolutely not viable. Doesn't necessarily score amazing, but meshes well with the 'walk to mid and secure points with chonk obsec' playstyle that the list wants to do.

He commented on Cmob's list and noted he felt like it was too reliant on the maleceptors living(with the lists' original designed running 3 however, chances are one was surviving) and a bad turn there could just mean GG. I mean he isn't WRONG but also they're T8 4++ with the option for transhuman and possible -1 incoming strength.

As someone who's running 3, lost 2 T1 without really doing much, then won because he'd sent his best damage into me and it died horribly in response, while I had solid scoring pressure...I mean, yeah it's fairly reliant on the 'cepters. But not so reliant on them it can't win without them, just reliant on them being incredibly problematic to shift, while almost needing them to be shifted: if you can force the opponent to sink massive amounts of resources into killing them, then mop up with the tyrants/some shooting, very nice. And 45 T8 4++ wounds, possible -1 S, maybe some with a 5+++...'hard to shift' will often be an understatement.

Your weakness is killing things too slowly more than anything: my loses were mostly because I couldn't get out onto the board fast enough (mostly bodyblocks, though Ravenwing scared me as well). While my wins I had almost free reign on where I went, and was very easily able to move out, force bad trades while also limiting scoring.

piersonsmuppet said:

our units that dodged the Jan nerfs: Tfex

Ah yes, the +15 pts and +60 to its best piece of support, unnerfed

Vs a list that can kill 2+ Malceptors in one turn, I'd just reserve them. They are already great out of reserves since they ignore LoS, and the Neuro imperative can be used to overcome the loss of the 3d6 tests. Reduced MW output is still better than no MW output. The argument that Malceptors are too at risk of dying before doing anything was good prior to free Strat Reserves, now it seems dated and almost irrelevant.

Eh, I'd be very leery of doing that. Yes you preserve the damage: but that'll usually just be going into screens, and more importantly, you've reserved your midfield and primary pressure. It now has to come on T2, maybe not even get onto objectives T3, while your tyrants aren't comfortable moving up with nothing to take heat for them. So your opponent scores freely and you don't.

Just run them up mid, force your opponent to deal with them or lose, and hopefully surprise your opponent by how tanky they can be.

[wcgnidz]

Update: Got in 2 more games since post(also knights, two diff players one kinda green). Currently 5-1 with the list. Definitely gonna stick with this list until at least after the next RTT I have in like 3 weeks.

84-70 one game. 79-72 the other. The list definitely struggles breaking 90 in this matchup. But then again, me personally with nids even pre-nerfs I struggled to break 90.

Still niche play data. Need many more reps into many more factions(only IK of varied flavors and BA at this point). 

[wcgnidz]

3-0 2nd place finish at a 26 man rtt. List unchanged.

Crons, chaos knights, crons

Fabricators forge march 11th rtt in PA