2023 / 10th Nid Rumors

[dkng]

WotHM is still better used for giving two units 5+ fnp or 5+ crits (or giving one unit crits for free if you’re short on CPs) than double Overwatch (unless you’re running double Acidfexes). I think the „once per turn” limitation on Overwatch will be FAQed so that WotHM can’t double it. And even if it turns out to be in our favor the last paragraph of WotHM will make it work only in the same turn (so two overwatches in opponent’s move phase or charge phase, not one in movement and one in charge).

[trashcan01]

Jun 18, 2023 6:27:33 GMT piersonsmuppet said:

Jun 18, 2023 0:47:47 GMT No One said:

Overwatch has a once per turn rider: you may be able to get around it with tyrant, but I don't think so.

I'd say you're right about the "Once per Turn" preventing the Tyrant ability from reusing Overwatch. However, I think the community at large is probably going to favor the "Index trumps Core" even though there's no explicit permission to dodge a 1/turn rider.

I'm mostly on FB and here, I rarely use other "media". The community is being reminded that overwatch is 1/turn stratagem and there are no complaints on the matter. 

[No One]

dkng said:

WotHM is still better used for giving two units 5+ fnp or 5+ crits (or giving one unit crits for free if you’re short on CPs) than double Overwatch (unless you’re running double Acidfexes). I think the „once per turn” limitation on Overwatch will be FAQed so that WotHM can’t double it. And even if it turns out to be in our favor the last paragraph of WotHM will make it work only in the same turn (so two overwatches in opponent’s move phase or charge phase, not one in movement and one in charge).

I'll agree that I think 5+++ will usually be the better strat to double, but against some armies/in some situations double overwatch would absolutely be better: melee, close range shooting that you could just kill first, no threatening shooting and just trying to double bodyblock or similar etc. Similarly I doubt you'd care too much most of the time that you can't double dip across phases.

I don't think adrenal surge is a super relevant comparison for overwatch competition, since I doubt you'd get many opportunities to pop it in your opponent's turn, though free HI could be.

But yes, ultimately I agree I don't think it's legal and am not sure it's supposed to be, though Asurmen's ability being functionally the same wording but only working on overwatch means I'm far from certain about that.

[dkng]

Ahh yes the little details… WotHM is once per
TURN, not once per ROUND.
Yes, that makes my comparison moot.

[nidsallday]

oh no, yeah, seems you guys are right, even if it MIGHT be a bit conflicting as worded, pretty sure will get faq'd then -.-

[piersonsmuppet]

Jun 18, 2023 7:31:46 GMT trashcan01 said:

I'm mostly on FB and here, I rarely use other "media". The community is being reminded that overwatch is 1/turn stratagem and there are no complaints on the matter. 

Community in this regard would be the tournament community, specifically TO's for larger tournament circuits. The decisions they make on rulings have wide ranging effects on what is legal/not legal unless your local club house rules differently.

Example: In early 9th we had the Fights First, Fights Normal, Fights Last, & "Fights Super Last" because of a perceived difference in FIghts Last and "not eligible to fight". Most people I played with at various local tournaments thought the ruling was dumb but played it anyway because "that's the way it is".

[piersonsmuppet]

Jun 18, 2023 7:34:45 GMT No One said:

But yes, ultimately I agree I don't think it's legal and am not sure it's supposed to be, though Asurmen's ability being functionally the same wording but only working on overwatch means I'm far from certain about that.

First time I've looked at Asurmen's ability... I've been flipped. Exact same wording as WotHM (naming Overwatch vs. the generic "a Stratagem" means nothing imo) and ignores the 1/turn, double Overwatch definitely is legal without an explicit statement saying otherwise.

[gauntlet]

Dark Angel Detachment Rule: Grim Resolve
While an Adeptus Astartes unit from your army
is Battle-shocked, change the Objective Control
characteristic of models in that unit to 1, instead of 0.

Dark Angel Enhancement: SHROUD OF HEROES
On a 2+, set the bearer back up on the
battlefield as close as possible to where it was
destroyed and not within Engagement Range of any
enemy units, with 3 wounds remaining (if the bearer
was Battle-shocked when it was destroyed, it is
instead returned with its full wounds remaining).

Dark Angel Enhancement: STUBBORN TENACITY
While the bearer is
leading a unit, each time a model in that unit makes
an attack, add 1 to the Hit roll if the bearer’s unit is
below its Starting Strength, and add 1 to the Wound
roll as well if the bearer’s unit is Battle-shocked.

Dark Angel Enhancement: HEAVENFALL BLADE
Add 1 to the
Attacks, Strength and Damage characteristics of
the bearer’s melee weapons. While the bearer is
Battle-shocked, add 2 to the Attacks, Strength
and Damage characteristics of the bearer’s melee
weapons instead.

Dark Angel Enhancement: PENNANT OF REMEMBRANCE
While the
bearer is leading a unit, models in that unit
have the Feel No Pain 6+ ability. While that unit
is Battle-shocked, models in that unit have the
Feel No Pain 4+ ability instead.

Dark Angel Stratagem: UNFORGIVEN FURY
Until the end of the phase,
weapons equipped by models in your
unit have the [LETHAL HITS] ability. In
addition, if one or more Adeptus Astartes
units from your army are currently
Battle-shocked, until the end of the phase,
each time a model in your unit makes an
attack, a successful unmodified Hit roll of
5+ scores a Critical Hit.

[yoritomo]

Combat patrol rules are out:
www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/gW4Ph0be71HnhOFF.pdf

The tyranid one is just bad. The one synapse creature you have is the winged prime. So unless you wrap your entire army around him most of it won’t get your army ability. If that wasn’t bad enough, the only playable secondary objective is to use your prime to kill things (that’s not going to paint a big target on his back). It kind of forces you to take the lone operative enhancement for him.

We don’t have anything in the way of anti-tank, but thankfully there aren’t a lot of tanks in combat patrol.

[parzaius]

The GSC combat patrol shuts off their army rule on turns 4 and 5. You know, when you're likely to actually need it.

[yowster12]

Jun 20, 2023 14:47:20 GMT yoritomo said:

Combat patrol rules are out:
www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/gW4Ph0be71HnhOFF.pdf

The tyranid one is just bad. The one synapse creature you have is the winged prime. So unless you wrap your entire army around him most of it won’t get your army ability. If that wasn’t bad enough, the only playable secondary objective is to use your prime to kill things (that’s not going to paint a big target on his back). It kind of forces you to take the lone operative enhancement for him.

We don’t have anything in the way of anti-tank, but thankfully there aren’t a lot of tanks in combat patrol.

Can you have this as a sort of thing in a 2k points game as part of your army composition?

[yoritomo]

I don’t think so. These are specifically balanced(?) to play other combat patrols. These are special datasheets and rules just for combat patrols. I’m guessing we’ll get stuff like this when our codex is released.


As for the stealer cult rules, yeah it sucks it ends early. Though if this is really a beginner friendly format then you can’t have an army that can just pop a unit onto an objective on the last turn and not let the opponent react to it.

With other armies it isn’t so much of a problem because you can spend 5 turns trying to kill them so they can’t jump on a last minute objective. Cult is different because you can lose the game just because you did your job and killed their guys. That’s a feel bad loss that new players shouldn’t have to suffer.

tldr: Stealer cult rules cutoff sucks, but is necessary for the format.

[parzaius]

Jun 20, 2023 21:27:54 GMT yoritomo said:

I don’t think so. These are specifically balanced(?) to play other combat patrols. These are special datasheets and rules just for combat patrols. I’m guessing we’ll get stuff like this when our codex is released.


As for the stealer cult rules, yeah it sucks it ends early. Though if this is really a beginner friendly format then you can’t have an army that can just pop a unit onto an objective on the last turn and not let the opponent react to it.

With other armies it isn’t so much of a problem because you can spend 5 turns trying to kill them so they can’t jump on a last minute objective. Cult is different because you can lose the game just because you did your job and killed their guys. That’s a feel bad loss that new players shouldn’t have to suffer.

tldr: Stealer cult rules cutoff sucks, but is necessary for the format.

I mean, the Cult has poor damage output, poor survivability, and poor buffing options. Getting replacements is their whole gimmick.

And it's completely within the other guy's ability to shut it down, too. If they move within 9", that unit goes away for good. So if you want to pop up and take an objective, all the other guy needs to do is stand vaguely near your goal and your returning unit is going to be either too far to get in, or so close they can just pop the marker with a single move. The reinforcements also come in on THEIR next reinforcement phase (losing any use they could've had on your turn). So just in case they couldn't get close enough to the marker to auto-kill it, the opponent also gets to shoot your guys before they have a chance to make any difference on the board state. They can also just not kill off your whole unit, weakening it to the point that it poses no threat at all, so you can't get a chance to replace it (or, at least, not till the end of turn 3, where your faction power switches off). Also, you aren't benefiting from your recursion on turn 1, because the earliest things can come back are the top of turn 2, so with no turn 4 and 5, your army rule is good for exactly two turns of the game.

Meanwhile, marines what? Lose half of their free, infinite range, no targeting restriction, uncounterable, full rerolls? Okay, so only full To Hit rolls, but look at that: they can get full wound rerolls back for their terminators (and their leader) for 1 CP, giving them their full faction ability for half their Patrol. And that functions from the start of turn 1 all the way to the end of turn 5. But there's no stratagem that lets you keep your Ambush rolling, no sir.

I think people WILDLY over value the GSC gimmick. That was an army that depended on stratagems to run their whole deal for the last 2 expansions. With strats massively scaled back, you're going to need a ton of help to do just about anything. And there are so many counters to their gimmick that your opponent is going to have to be a complete potato to struggle with the Ambush.

[acehilator]

If anything, the Tyranid Patrol is OP. Just spend your CP on neverending units of Termagants. The free batrep from Warhammer TV is a good showcase. The Tyranid player played badly, SM have absurdly powerful units for the gamemode and small board sizes, and still can't do literally nothing to win. Maybe on battleplans with less objectives.

The whole thing will go nowhere fast, so it doesn't matter anyways. If you want smaller games, play boarding action. It's actually quite nice.

[riverzora]

www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/yjHP7Y5opT8kkexf.pdf

Forgeworld points have Shadow-dropped.

Both Hierodules - 305
Harridan - 655
Hierophant - 810

No rules yet but those are the numbers we’re looking at.