Custom Fleet 2k 5 and 0 new points

[zimko]

This list went 5 and 0 at a GT in Virginia using the new dataslate and points update but the Nephilim missions.

Custom Fleet: Nat Camo (Lurk), Hieghtened Reflexes (Hunt)
Tervigon (mawclaws, senses)
Tervigon
Neurothrope (Tendrils, barb)
30 gants
30 gants
10 gants
Deathleaper
Maleceptor
3 Pyrovores
3 Pyrovores
3 Pyrovores
3 Venomthropes
Parasite (Alien Cunning)

The player is @greenhavak on the tyranid discord and I've had several encounters and discussions with him in the past.
His games were:

100-61 Craftworlds

97-79 Necrons

60-58 Grey Knights (super slow game, talked through T3 and called it there) Tyranids would have taken the lead hard if played to turn 5.

80-57 BR Sisters

75-72 Imperial Knights (called T4) T5 score close to 90 to 76

The Imperial Knights game is the most impressive matchup win here given the changes. Apparently the Deathleaper came in clutch here to stop his opponent from using the secondary action in the middle for the Knight secondary. He simply moved Deathleaper to the middle and surrounded him with gants.

I asked him about the Maleceptor and he says turn 1 and 2 he mostly just used the action to reduce effectiveness of incoming fire on the gants, then turns 3+ it goes on offense if still alive.

The custom Fleet allows the gants to fallback and shoot, which greatly increases their effectiveness with tervigons giving them +1 to hit and reviving 4d6 per turn. The Maleceptor's imperative also combos nicely with this allowing the ganta to fallback, place a Spore node AND shoot for a turn without spending any CP. It also let's the Pyrovores become extra annoying to deal with since you can't just tag them in melee to turn off their shooting.

He said the Deathleaper was originally taken as a meta call because he expected to run into Custodes (there were 6 custode players at the GT) to turn off their stratagem usage I think but he turned out quite useful against Knights.

After some discussion with him, I brainstormed a derivative list for a larger GT.

Custom Fleet: Nat Camo (Lurk), Hieghtened Reflexes (Hunt)
Tervigon (mawclaws, senses)
Tervigon
Neurothrope (Tendrils, barb)
30 gants
30 gants
Deathleaper (Alien cunning)
Maleceptor
3 Pyrovores
3 Pyrovores
2 Pyrovores
3 Venomthropes
Exocrine

This trades out Parasite, 10 gants and 1 pyrovore for an Exocrine. One of the Exocrine's biggest weaknesses has been the blast rule turning off his shooting in melee. But with this custom Fleet that is negated. It is also now free to put him into strategic reserves if we are worried about him dying turn 1.

I have a GT 2 weeks after LVO and no time to test new lists so I'm very appreciative of his collaboration and hope yall can help us come up with more ideas that can work in Arks of Omens.

[dkng]

Original Levi aside, this is what overnerfing leads to - spam lists.

[piersonsmuppet]

I don’t really see how this works better than using Levi with the Fallback/Shoot. Hive Nexus gives versatility in doing at least two turns of fallback, action, & shoot (with a 5++) Did the TO rule that Ignore Cover rules don’t turn off non-terrain save bonuses light Nat Camo?

Edit: I see… no zoans.

[ausnid]

I'm very keen to hear how this is practically played under tournament time limit conditions - it seems like a lot of bodies to move about, and while you make the point about effectiveness of shooting etc its a lot of dice to be rolling. I'm surprised it only timed out in two of its games, but it does look strong.

[piersonsmuppet]

Well it is just 30 dice per Gant block, not like the old Devilgants and chucking 90 dice. Basically the same amount of dice a list using 2x9 warrior bricks would throw (24 shots, 36 sword attacks).

[dkng]

Jan 18, 2023 18:02:18 GMT piersonsmuppet said:

Well it is just 30 dice per Gant block, not like the old Devilgants and chucking 90 dice. Basically the same amount of dice a list using 2x9 warrior bricks would throw (24 shots, 36 sword attacks).

9 Warriors will shoot 45 times with Devs and 27 times with Spitters

[piersonsmuppet]

Jan 18, 2023 20:14:17 GMT dkng said:

9 Warriors will shoot 45 times with Devs and 27 times with Spitters

The comparison was to the typical Levi warrior setup for 9e, 6x DS and 3x VC (24 avg shots). In any comparison, a block of gants is less time consuming to roll dice for than a block of warriors. Wasn’t really a problem for most tournament lists. I find gant blocks less finicky than warriors to move around as well (mine are on 40mm bases).

Edit: what is the view of how the list plays into space wolves and blood angels? Those are prevalent in my meta and the list seems geared towards anti-shooting. Also, what was the Knights list like? Would they have been able to win if they didn’t brain fart on DL?

[zimko]

Against melee armies you have fallback and shoot and pyrovores. Let them crash into gants and then burn em down. Even if they do manage to kill the gants, they should absorb the initial wave.

[piersonsmuppet]

Fallback & shoot doesn’t do much when a single red scorpion BA or SW claw unit can almost wipe the gants through catalyst w/o the 5++. They avg 20-27 failed catalyst rolls. I think I might try a Levi version of this though, as I really like the primary/secondary power in addition to fb&shoot on the gants and the mini-trans/5++ in combat might be required for my area. 12-16 failed catalyst rolls vs those units is manageable. Might be that trading pyrovores for Zoans takes too much from how the list works though…

[piersonsmuppet]

Thoughts on a Tfex instead of the Exo? Pairs better into heightened reflexes than Exo due to the flamer. I tried an HR Exo last year and was still pretty useless falling back if not a top table.

[trashcan01]

I think the main reason for Fall back and shoot are the pyrovores. If something is crashing on your gants, and you have 3 units of autohitting overwatch that hurts, maybe you're doing something wrong.

[zimko]

Who is doing what wrong? And yes the pyrovores are the main benefactor of fallback and shoot.