9 zoanthropes

[nidnewbie]

Why don't I see blobs of 9 brain bugs in competitive lists? It seems to me the unit should cast more reliable smites & super smites further into the game than the blobs of 3 I typically see.

[turtletyrant]

you max the extra MW on smites at 3 per cast, so little point in running more than that.. you can actually do a free 9 MW with 3 seperate units.

Also, the unit is 3-6 models

[nidnewbie]

Right after I posted I realized my flub with saying 9 instead of 6 🙄

Isn't there something to be said for more models adding to the durability of the unit?

[piersonsmuppet]

Well 6 introduces coherency complications and you can’t string them out as easily to increase link coverage. Also, the MW bonus caps at +3, so each model over 3 really only adds durability to the unit; 50pts is a lot for just 3 wounds.

You see just 3 because that is what you need to get their imperative, most lists don’t run them for much else. In a list looking to really use Zoans aggressively, 4 is nice to have extra durability without wasting too many pts. Anything over 4 is usually better spent elsewhere.


Edit: Zoans are 4 wounds, still inefficient to go over 4 models/unit imo.

[nidnewbie]

Thanks!

[trashcan01]

Sept 14, 2022 21:47:24 GMT piersonsmuppet said:

Well 6 introduces coherency complications and you can’t string them out as easily to increase link coverage. Also, the MW bonus caps at +3, so each model over 3 really only adds durability to the unit; 50pts is a lot for just 3 wounds.

You see just 3 because that is what you need to get their imperative, most lists don’t run them for much else. In a list looking to really use Zoans aggressively, 4 is nice to have extra durability without wasting too many pts. Anything over 4 is usually better spent elsewhere.

Just sayin'  - they are 4 wounds per model now.

[hiveoverall]

I tried going 2*3 brain bugs as leviathan for my two games last sunday and they worked great, i don't think 4 is a good idea. IMHO 1*3, 2*3 (or 3*3 but i don't think i'll ever want to do that) are the only efficient options. As piersonsmuppet said, 50pts is just too much for ablative wounds. Perhaps I'll reconsider if we get nerfed hard across many of our "most feared" units but brain bugs are left untouched, but for now...

[piersonsmuppet]

Sept 21, 2022 13:24:42 GMT hiveoverall said:

I tried going 2*3 brain bugs as leviathan for my two games last sunday and they worked great, i don't think 4 is a good idea. IMHO 1*3, 2*3 (or 3*3 but i don't think i'll ever want to do that) are the only efficient options. As piersonsmuppet said, 50pts is just too much for ablative wounds. Perhaps I'll reconsider if we get nerfed hard across many of our "most feared" units but brain bugs are left untouched, but for now...

Realistically you'd want SL when running 4+ Zoans to make the extra durability help score/deny primary VP. Works well in Levi since transhuman is our only fleet defense that works in shooting/fighting.

Kraken can also work well for the additional models as Zoans will be further up in the action due to the extra mobility. Downside is that they want a fleet that keeps Kraken's adaptive.

4+ also works well in Jorm with Synaptic Ganglia; Easier to keep the unit behind obscuring with only 1 Zoan poking out to smite so you only lose 1 Zoan in the opponent's shooting phase. You can also deepstrike 4+ model units for just 1 CP. Somewhat redundant with Encircle, but it does let you have your pick of position with 2 Zoan units T2.

[hiveoverall]

SL and 4+ zoans is incredebly expensive tech though, I wouldn't go down that road atm. Perhaps post "next nerf" (I believe we -and other top codex- are getting hit again soon)

[No One]

Of course, I'd peg Levi to get hit by the dataslate, so...not sure how good of a pivot that'd be.

[niiai]

While it caps at +3 mortal wounds, the +1 to cast per Zoanthrope is not capped at +3. If you have 5 you only need to roll a 6 to get the D6 smite.

Of course I think 1d3+3 x2 is better then 1d6+5. Multiple small Zoanthrope units seems better. This can be combined with the neuronthrope to get a cast on 3d6 of your choise. Somebody would have to sit down with some math to see best average smite damage for your points. Perhaps 15 Zoanthropes is the way to go? Although I suspects units of 3 is where it is at.

[No One]

Going from d3 to d6 is an increase of 1.5 MWs. Considering that getting a super smite with 3 is quite feasible, and you're still not guaranteed with 5, that's 100 pts for probably ~1 MW extra on average (though it does also allow you to keep it at 'unfailable' through smite scaling, but that's generally not super helpful), which is uhh...quite bad.