Which secondaries to choose?

[twistedmagpie]

Hello,

I am running this list...


++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [100 PL, 1CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [6CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Gametype: 4. Chapter Approved: War Zone Nephilim

Hive Fleet: Adaptive, Behemoth

+ Stratagems +

Hive Predator [-1CP]: Extra Warlord Trait

Rarefied Enhancements [-2CP]: 2x Extra Bio-artefact

Relic [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant [9 PL, -1CP, 215pts]: Adrenal Glands, Heavy Venom Cannon, Lash Whip and Monstrous Bonesword, Power: Onslaught, Power: Paroxysm, Power: Smite, Relic: Shardgullet, Stratagem: Warlord Trait, Toxin Sacs, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Heightened Senses

Neurothrope [5 PL, 100pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Smite, Power: Unstoppable Onslaught, Warlord Trait: Direct Guidance
. Relic: Resonance Barb: Power: Psychic Scream

Trygon Prime [10 PL, 190pts]: Adrenal Glands, Biostatic Rattle, Relic: The Passenger

+ Troops +

Gargoyles [4 PL, 80pts]
. 10x Gargoyle: 10x Fleshborer

Gargoyles [4 PL, 80pts]
. 10x Gargoyle: 10x Fleshborer

Tyranid Warriors [12 PL, 310pts]: Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords
. Tyranid Warrior: Dual Boneswords, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior: Dual Boneswords, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior: Dual Boneswords, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords

+ Elites +

Deathleaper [5 PL, 120pts]

Tyrant Guard [8 PL, 135pts]: Adrenal Glands
. 3x Tyrant Guard (Scything): 3x Two Rending Claws, 3x Two Scything Talons

Zoanthropes [14 PL, 200pts]: 4x Zoanthrope

+ Heavy Support +

Exocrine [9 PL, 200pts]

Screamer-Killers [8 PL, 155pts]
. Screamer-Killer: Adaptive Physiology: Synaptic Enhancement, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs

Tyrannofex [12 PL, 215pts]: Adaptive Physiology: Dermic Symbiosis, Rupture Cannon

++ Total: [100 PL, 1CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

I will be facing possible opponents from...

Dark Angels
Grey Knights
Orks
Tao

I'm really stuck in which objectives would be to choose against these opponents. I will mostly not have a clue about what they will bring and they will be unlikely to be playing to a particular meta. However I don't really know anything about these armies because I'm fairly new to the game

I understand that both Dark Angels and Grey Knights have pretty easy ways to shut down psychic objectives.

I'm considering the combination of Bring it Down and Synaptic Insight because they really want the same thing and I have plenty of tools to bring down big things.

[dkng]

What easy ways to shut down psychic objectives?

There is no definite answer to your question. It depends...
If they bring many 3W models then SynIns is great and easy.
With all those Gargs, Trygon and Leaper you can go for BEL (on maps with large DZs) or Engage if you like the terrain layout across the no-mans land. When playing on a map with more than 4 objectives RtB is always easy for comp like yours.

[No One]

twistedmagpie said:

I'm really stuck in which objectives would be to choose against these opponents. I will mostly not have a clue about what they will bring and they will be unlikely to be playing to a particular meta. However I don't really know anything about these armies because I'm fairly new to the game

I understand that both Dark Angels and Grey Knights have pretty easy ways to shut down psychic objectives.

Ideally you want to be building secondaries into your list: psychic (generally psychic int, though ritual can be good depending on match up/mission) is our best access one for most match ups. Slap 3d6 cast on a tyrant, or neuro if it's late game and you need to push through denies. Fairly reliable and will generally be high enough you don't need to worry about unbuffed denies (e.g. DA). Not great for armies that can chuck reliable denies at things though e.g. strat denies, TSons/GK.

I'm considering the combination of Bring it Down and Synaptic Insight because they really want the same thing and I have plenty of tools to bring down big things.

Bring it down (and SI, but especially BiD) is wholly reliant on your opponent bringing plenty of big stuff. Which none of those (except maybe Orks) are likely to do, though BiD will generally be very good if they do so. SI is...potentially OK if the match up aligns, but requires juggling your kills so you kill enough of specific things with Synapse over 4/5 rounds. To still only get 12. Don't think SI would be a good pick into any of those lists, though could be a 'best of the bad' option.

Also a problem with going for two 'same thing' objectives is you put yourself in a position where you basically have to do those to win. Sometimes that's fine, and you can force your opponent to engage and then kill them. But some armies can look at your secondaries and go 'I can just ignore you and win' and do so, play super cagey, and you don't really have great tools to force the issue.

Otherwise, banners is usually pretty good, though you don't have great tools to defend your objectives. But defend a couple, a couple end game and it can score quite high, while countering that sort of cagey play I mentioned earlier (can be very bad into strong aggressive lists though). Engage/BEL are options, though I think are too reliant on your gargs outside engage on corner maps for me to be happy saying they're a good pick. I could be wrong (haven't even tried because they're so bad with my list), but engage is the average lowest scoring secondary we have access to (that's inc all factions, but still), so...I doubt it. BEL's pretty good, but low pick rate i.e. don't take unless you're confident your army can score it: again, maybe but doubt it.
40kstats.goonhammer.com/#secondaries

[piersonsmuppet]

I think BiD and SI are a good pair of secondaries when appropriate, though you are somewhat on the lower end of # of Synapse I’d like for SI. SI is also better the more phases you can score it in, I would recommend swapping the SK for a HVC Carnifex with your choice of claws or talons.

Like the others have said though, secondary choices are very situational for Nids. Best advice is to build a list you feel comfortable scoring 6-7 secondaries. That way you aren’t scrambling for a third when one of your three isn’t good (since we have no true auto-takes).

[twistedmagpie]

Thanks guys, that's all very helpful.

Can I ask why the swap for that carnifex?

[piersonsmuppet]

The change is purely to improve you ability to get tallies for Synaptic Insight. The HVC provides more reach to help get tallies for SI T1/2 (since you have Synapse on the Carnifex). Also with S9 D4, the Carnifex can help gain tallies from models other than elite Infantry (important for your want to take BiD and SI).

[twistedmagpie]

Don't Dark Angels have a rule that allows all their units to do a 4+ deny or something?

[twistedmagpie]

How would you guys suggest amending the list to be more suitable for Behind Enemy Lines

And/ or provide better defence for Raise the Banners?

Alternatively how do you find Spore Nodes, a bunch of lictors running around the back field could achieve this?

[dkng]

Sept 1, 2022 18:59:26 GMT twistedmagpie said:

How would you guys suggest amending the list to be more suitable for Behind Enemy Lines

And/ or provide better defence for Raise the Banners?

Alternatively how do you find Spore Nodes, a bunch of lictors running around the back field could achieve this?

Spore Nodes can only be done by Troops, Lictors are Elites.
As for BEL - yeah Lictors are kinda made for this, PoM with Sac relic can do it on it's own, Raveners are always welcome as they are fast and pack a serious punch. In a pinch you can always EtP Gargs or even Zoans and deepstrike them the next turn.

[piersonsmuppet]

I like 2x Lictors and a few Zoan units to EtP for BEL, both are difficult to remove with a single enemy unit.

[twistedmagpie]

How about this....


++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [104 PL, , 1,999pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [6CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Gametype: 4. Chapter Approved: War Zone Nephilim

Hive Fleet: Adaptive, Behemoth

+ Stratagems +

Hive Predator [-2CP]: 2x Extra Warlord Trait

Rarefied Enhancements [-2CP]: 2x Extra Bio-artefact

Relic [-1CP]

+ No Force Org Slot +

Tyrant Guard [8 PL, 120pts]
. 3x Tyrant Guard (Scything): 3x Two Rending Claws, 3x Two Scything Talons

Zoanthropes [7 PL, 150pts]: 3x Zoanthrope

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant [9 PL, -1CP, 215pts]: Adrenal Glands, Heavy Venom Cannon, Lash Whip and Monstrous Bonesword, Power: Onslaught, Power: Paroxysm, Power: Smite, Relic: Shardgullet, Stratagem: Warlord Trait, Toxin Sacs, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Heightened Senses

Neurothrope [5 PL, 100pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Smite, Power: Unstoppable Onslaught, Warlord Trait: Direct Guidance
. Relic: Resonance Barb: Power: Psychic Scream

Trygon Prime [10 PL, 200pts]: Adrenal Glands, Biostatic Rattle, Relic: The Passenger, Toxin Sacs

+ Troops +

Gargoyles [8 PL, 96pts]
. 12x Gargoyle: 12x Fleshborer

Termagants [12 PL, 168pts]: Fleshborer, 24x Termagant

Tyranid Warriors [12 PL, 310pts]: Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords
. Tyranid Warrior: Dual Boneswords, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior: Dual Boneswords, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior: Dual Boneswords, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords

+ Elites +

Deathleaper [5 PL, 120pts]

Lictor [4 PL, 70pts]

+ Fast Attack +

Parasite of Mortrex [4 PL, 80pts]: Warlord Trait: Alien Cunning

+ Heavy Support +

Screamer-Killers [8 PL, 155pts]
. Screamer-Killer: Adaptive Physiology: Synaptic Enhancement, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs

Tyrannofex [12 PL, 215pts]: Adaptive Physiology: Dermic Symbiosis, Rupture Cannon

++ Total: [104 PL, 1,999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

I got Hive Tyrant and Tyrannofex for tank removal

Hive Tyrant, Screamer Killer and Tryon melee for terminator class infantry. Among with the warriors that should be enough to hold the front lines.

The Gants to hold an objective in my zone and protect the rear.

Death leaper, lictor and parasite of mortrex can drop in from orbit to gain behind enemy lines

I'll use the neuro to grab psychic interrogation against the right opponents.

Does anyone have any thoughts about this move? Is doing the exocrine the best move?

[dkng]

Just a quick tip - Biovores are best for home / backfield objective holding. They are infantry so can raise banners, can seed spores that are useful for movement / charge blocking and are quite durable for their points. 24 Termas on the other hand can cover a lot of surface but their short range guns wont do much throughout the game.

[twistedmagpie]

Wouldn't being able to cover more space to prevent deepstrike be more advantageous than the benefit of the biovore?

[dkng]

Sept 2, 2022 18:32:37 GMT twistedmagpie said:

Wouldn't being able to cover more space to prevent deepstrike be more advantageous than the benefit of the biovore?

This is a thing you have to look at from two sides. Yes, the coverage is important but on the other hand you pay at least 70 points for something that just takes space and... that's it. Or you can pay 45 for something that also messes with the enemy by planting mines here and there. If you really want something for just taking up space Rippers will serve you better - larger bases, more wounds and even easier to hide.
Termas really only make sense in packs of 30 screening a Tervigon.

[twistedmagpie]

Ahh I see. But not troops, which I need to fill up slots.

Connundrum