Scything talons extra attacks

[turtletyrant]

In our group we have a constant debate about the extra attacks granted by weapons such as scything talons. On an example of Raveners, who have a base 5 attacks, if it is equipped with 2 sycthing talons, does he gain 2 extra attacks (1 for each talons) or do both talons count as one weapon, and give you only 1 extra attack?

[Bohxim]

2 additional attacks. 1 each per scything talon (quite easily confirmed. U buy it 2x scything talon. Each scything talon mentions +1 attack)
Do note, additional attacks must be with the scything talons

[turtletyrant]

great. thanks for the clarification.

[DukeMantis]

So Hormagants have 5 attacks each?

[princeyg]

Aug 21, 2022 19:27:28 GMT DukeMantis said:

So Hormagants have 5 attacks each?

Dont be disingenuous. Hormagaunts dont have scything talons. They have "Hormagaunt talons" as per the datasheet.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Aug 21, 2022 19:36:32 GMT princeyg said:

Aug 21, 2022 19:27:28 GMT DukeMantis said:

So Hormagants have 5 attacks each?

Dont be disingenuous. Hormagaunts dont have scything talons. They have "Hormagaunt talons" as per the datasheet.

Sounds like an honest misunderstanding. Hormogaunts had scything talons in the 8e codex.

[LordPathos]

Maybe Hormagants would be worth their points if they had 5 attacks each.

[dkng]

Aug 22, 2022 3:12:23 GMT LordPathos said:

Maybe Hormagants would be worth their points if they had 5 attacks each.

Still only in Behemoth - S3 is what drags them down the most...

[infornography]

Aug 22, 2022 5:07:41 GMT dkng said:

Aug 22, 2022 3:12:23 GMT LordPathos said:

Maybe Hormagants would be worth their points if they had 5 attacks each.

Still only in Behemoth - S3 is what drags them down the most...

naw, AG fixes that in a hurry. It is the points cost of bringing an AG horm body compared to how easy they are to remove from the battlefield that holds them back.

I don't think they should be harder to remove because being deployed and removed in large numbers is what they are FOR, but I think they should be a point or two cheaper per body.

[kinginyellow]

Either points cheaper to keep at 8ppm with ag or remove ag access and give them +1 str with no pts increase. This way they are just str 4 base, slightly slower bust still incredibly fast with stratagems.

Of course cheaper is more ideal as that just gives more options but I would be okay with just str 4.

[dkng]

Aug 22, 2022 17:00:48 GMT kinginyellow said:

Either points cheaper to keep at 8ppm with ag or remove ag access and give them +1 str with no pts increase. This way they are just str 4 base, slightly slower bust still incredibly fast with stratagems.

Of course cheaper is more ideal as that just gives more options but I would be okay with just str 4.

We might see a point drop in the future (for list building diversity or for GW to up their sales) but upping str to 4 is not going to happen. Giving a humble Horm Marine-tier attacks would be, sadly, too good.
I still like them though - 80 pts for 10 scoring bodies able to zzzip 16" and then charge throwing 30 attacks is still nice to have. And honestly - I love the models and I'm sad they're not worth it to field enmasse.

[Jbizzy]

1 ppm on gaunts and 1ppm w/ no cost on devs for gants would feel great and change some lists.

The kroot carnivore is 6ppm and decent.

[infornography]

Aug 22, 2022 21:00:07 GMT Jbizzy said:

1 ppm on gaunts and 1ppm w/ no cost on devs for gants would feel great and change some lists.

The kroot carnivore is 6ppm and decent.

Yeah, the Kroot Carnivore has -1 AP same as horms, but they only have 6+ save, 7" move, and 2 attacks.
On the other hand they have a built in Str 4, 3+ WS, grenades and 24" rapid fire guns, and a +1 saves when in cover.

At 6 ppm and unless I am mistaken, not really considered meta, it might make a decent baseline to compare.

Given the substantial speed advantage horms have over them, and the additional attack, I think it is fair to make it a 1 point premium even though they lack ranged capabilities. A base of 7 points would make AG horms 9 and fully loaded 10 points. I think that is fair. Maybe a touch high but not by so much that it would stop me from fielding them if the list would make use of them.

[srblack1167]

Question Answering:
Dual Bonesword is 1 extra attack
Scything Talon is 1 extra attack
Thresher Scythe is 3 extra attacks

Each time the model fights, that weapon gets that extra attack. Use the best profile for the initial attacks, and then add the extra attacks. For Carnifexes equipped with Carnifex Scything Talons / Warriors with Dual Boneswords it's the same; for Raveners you'd use the Ravener Claws, and add the Scything Talon extra attack for each weapon (2 attacks with that profile). Carnifex with Thresher Scythe would do their best weapon profile, and then 3 attacks with the Thresher Scythe.

Dual Boneswords is a good example for the group. Since it's two weapons on the model, but listed as a single weapon profile. So, it's only 1 extra attack. While 2x Scything Talon is equipped, and the Scything Talon is a weapon listed as a single weapon. So, each Scything Talon with its own profile gets an extra attack.


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As for the Hormagaunt conversation... I prefer 15 Hormagaunts with AG/TS with Gorgon for a lethal 2CP combo for 60 attacks, 20 average auto-wound. And Gorgon, so I don't care about Str unless they're up against a VEHICLE. But, I play small 500-1000 point games and don't face big-nasties very often in the smaller battles.

[infornography]

I REALLY wish they hadn't done it that way. Tyranid weapons have historically been taken as pairs and it isn't like you really have an option to only equip a single scything talon. They should have just made Scything Talons a weapon option and given it +2 attacks. Just weird how they only did it this way with ONE option.