Post by wcgnidz on Aug 17, 2022 20:28:04 GMT
Hey guys,
So I've played a fair bit with the new nids since the nephalim book. two 5 game GT's, a 5 game major, and a host of assorted games. I've grossly grossly changed my list styles. I played levi full transhuman, 8 psykers(3 neuros, 2 BL's, 3 zoan units) with warriors and raveners full infantry(not a single monster) and adored that list. But weirdly, I felt like I struggled into tyranids a lot(I didn't have the dedicated CC fast beatstick that could move like 16" and kill a character for assassinate/cranial in the form of a flyrant or anything). I could compete against nids, but would get picked apart like a surgeon with a scalpel was tearing into my keystone units(some of that was poor play on my part). And the bigger issue was for me to score my reliable secondaries, I was needing to move forward a hair and expose myself, which was consistently something that was the jump off point for my demise in my losses.
Then After the major I attended I leaned heavily into a concept an opponent who beat me used with the tervigon and kraken. Also a list I adored. But what I found that I think many of us are struggling with is our secondary game post the loss of the "easy" secondaries(TTL/strangle). But that being said, the two secondaries I take the most, Psychic Interrogation and Raise the Banners have done stellar for me. Every game I've gotten less than 12 on for interrogation, was because I got a peril of the warp, cp rerolled, and got a second perils of the warp on double one's. This has happened like 5 times. But it happens. Banners? On the low end I've scored like 10, but rarely get less than 12 and have maxed it multiple times with enough ease.
Both lists, I loved loved loved raveners, so I'm really lamenting taking them out of my list in this current iteration of what I'm going to be fielding. Also what they got replaced with in the Fast Attack slot is.....weird. Also this is the first iteration of a comp list I'm NOT running death leaper with alien cunning, which feels odd. But there's a reason and I'll explain my logic after the list.
But my third secondary. I'm a little tilted after my last GT and decided to scrap my kraken list because picking several different secondaries, my third pick at the GT scored me 2, 4, 3, 4, and 8 secondary points. This was mostly engage, and assassinate but I've noticed the same core issue for my lists repeatedly. So without further adieu below is my current work in progress slightly cleaned up for ease of reading:
++ Battalion++
+ Configuration +
Hive Fleet: (Hunt) Augmented Ferocity, Leviathan
+ Stratagems +
Hive Predator [-2CP]: 2x Extra Warlord Trait
Rarefied Enhancements [-1CP]: Extra Bio-artefact
+ No Force Org Slot +
Broodlord [6 PL, 120pts]: Power: Hive Nexus, Power: Onslaught
+ HQ +
Neurothrope [5 PL, 100pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: The Horror
Winged Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 230pts]: Adrenal Glands, Lash Whip and Monstrous Bonesword, Power: Onslaught, Power: Paroxysm, Relic: The Reaper of Obilterax, Toxin Sacs, Warlord(because he has to be)
+ Troops +
Tyranid Warriors [4 PL, 90pts]
3x Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords
Tyranid Warriors [4 PL, 90pts]
3x Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords
Tyranid Warriors [4 PL, 90pts]
3x Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords
+ Elites +
Genestealers [5 PL, 80pts]: Acid Maw, Flesh Hooks
. 5x Genestealer: 5x Genestealer Claws and Talons
Lictor [4 PL, 70pts]
Lictor [4 PL, 70pts]
Lictor [4 PL, 70pts]
Venomthropes [5 PL, 105pts]
. 3x Venomthrope: 3x Toxic Lashes
+ Fast Attack +
Sky-slasher Swarms [2 PL, 45pts]: 3x Sky-slasher Swarm
Sky-slasher Swarms [2 PL, 45pts]: 3x Sky-slasher Swarm
Sky-slasher Swarms [2 PL, 45pts]: 3x Sky-slasher Swarm
++ Patrol Detachment ++
+ Configuration +
Detachment Cost [-2CP]
Hive Fleet: (Hunt) Augmented Ferocity, Leviathan
+ No Force Org Slot +
Zoanthropes [7 PL, 150pts]: Power: The Horror, 3x Zoanthrope
+ HQ +
Broodlord [6 PL, 120pts]: Power: The Horror, Warlord Trait: Alien Cunning
Neurothrope [5 PL, 100pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Onslaught, Warlord Trait: Synaptic Tendrils
+ Troops +
Gargoyles [4 PL, 80pts]
. 10x Gargoyle: 10x Fleshborer
+ Elites +
Zoanthropes [7 PL, 150pts]: Power: Hive Nexus, Power: Neuroparasite, 3x Zoanthrope
Zoanthropes [7 PL, 150pts]: Power: Hive Nexus, Power: Psychic Scream, 3x Zoanthrope
++ Total: [98 PL, 1CP, 2,000pts] ++
So the idea here is to not need to leave my ruin/defensive castle. My 3 blocks of zoanthropes, the neurothropes, the tyrant unless he can overrun back easily, the whole shebang. That cluster is amazing but the reality is I don't want to expose them unless I have to. The flyrant gives me the much wanted/needed beat stick that I've felt my lists lack though I keep switching between the Reaper of Obliterax and the Maw Claws.
The broodlords. They exist to forward deploy(with the stealers) to help me score Psychic Interrogation without needing to push my flyrant or neurothropes too far forward exposing them to being charged. They can also lay down some banners for me(hence one having alien cunning). I need to be super super smart with the forward deploy. Losing these guys getting too aggressive is a huge mistake.
The secondary function of those forward deploy units is possibly engage on all fronts. But they're more the B team in this list to make that happen, we don't wanna lose them to score 2 points on engage necessarily(the stealers may be worth it but I felt my opponent fear my old psychic list and I think this list has the same chops). I say they're the B team because we now go to my weird choice. Sky Slasher swarms. They can deepstrike, have fly so they can have encircle the prey used on them. They move 12". And most importantly, they start as 3 models in a unit. Per the new engage of all fronts rules in Nephilim, the unit's STARTING strength must be 3+ models to allow them to score engage. They're cheap-ish(not old codex lictor cheap but cheap). They're fast. And they won't break my heart to lose.
Now we go back to banners. How can I continue to do well with banners with an army who's plan is to avoid the mid-field as much as possible? Well since I traded out death leaper, I added THREE lictors. They aren't AS good as DL. But their not being able to be targetted outside 12" if hugging terrain? That's....really solid. And will frustrate my opponent.
Also can be gamed with my forward deploy force(if the broodlord is getting look out sir from like stealers behind a wall for example, but a random lictor touching terrain is somewhere between the enemy and the broodlord, you still can't shoot the broodlord since the lictor is a valid closer target. You just can't select him unless within 12" because he never got fixed like bodyguard did).
Anyways. Just sharing the whole, my gears turning thing. Yeah, I'm probably too invested into the psychic phase. But I like the list so far. One game deep did well.
So I've played a fair bit with the new nids since the nephalim book. two 5 game GT's, a 5 game major, and a host of assorted games. I've grossly grossly changed my list styles. I played levi full transhuman, 8 psykers(3 neuros, 2 BL's, 3 zoan units) with warriors and raveners full infantry(not a single monster) and adored that list. But weirdly, I felt like I struggled into tyranids a lot(I didn't have the dedicated CC fast beatstick that could move like 16" and kill a character for assassinate/cranial in the form of a flyrant or anything). I could compete against nids, but would get picked apart like a surgeon with a scalpel was tearing into my keystone units(some of that was poor play on my part). And the bigger issue was for me to score my reliable secondaries, I was needing to move forward a hair and expose myself, which was consistently something that was the jump off point for my demise in my losses.
Then After the major I attended I leaned heavily into a concept an opponent who beat me used with the tervigon and kraken. Also a list I adored. But what I found that I think many of us are struggling with is our secondary game post the loss of the "easy" secondaries(TTL/strangle). But that being said, the two secondaries I take the most, Psychic Interrogation and Raise the Banners have done stellar for me. Every game I've gotten less than 12 on for interrogation, was because I got a peril of the warp, cp rerolled, and got a second perils of the warp on double one's. This has happened like 5 times. But it happens. Banners? On the low end I've scored like 10, but rarely get less than 12 and have maxed it multiple times with enough ease.
Both lists, I loved loved loved raveners, so I'm really lamenting taking them out of my list in this current iteration of what I'm going to be fielding. Also what they got replaced with in the Fast Attack slot is.....weird. Also this is the first iteration of a comp list I'm NOT running death leaper with alien cunning, which feels odd. But there's a reason and I'll explain my logic after the list.
But my third secondary. I'm a little tilted after my last GT and decided to scrap my kraken list because picking several different secondaries, my third pick at the GT scored me 2, 4, 3, 4, and 8 secondary points. This was mostly engage, and assassinate but I've noticed the same core issue for my lists repeatedly. So without further adieu below is my current work in progress slightly cleaned up for ease of reading:
++ Battalion++
+ Configuration +
Hive Fleet: (Hunt) Augmented Ferocity, Leviathan
+ Stratagems +
Hive Predator [-2CP]: 2x Extra Warlord Trait
Rarefied Enhancements [-1CP]: Extra Bio-artefact
+ No Force Org Slot +
Broodlord [6 PL, 120pts]: Power: Hive Nexus, Power: Onslaught
+ HQ +
Neurothrope [5 PL, 100pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: The Horror
Winged Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 230pts]: Adrenal Glands, Lash Whip and Monstrous Bonesword, Power: Onslaught, Power: Paroxysm, Relic: The Reaper of Obilterax, Toxin Sacs, Warlord(because he has to be)
+ Troops +
Tyranid Warriors [4 PL, 90pts]
3x Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords
Tyranid Warriors [4 PL, 90pts]
3x Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords
Tyranid Warriors [4 PL, 90pts]
3x Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords
+ Elites +
Genestealers [5 PL, 80pts]: Acid Maw, Flesh Hooks
. 5x Genestealer: 5x Genestealer Claws and Talons
Lictor [4 PL, 70pts]
Lictor [4 PL, 70pts]
Lictor [4 PL, 70pts]
Venomthropes [5 PL, 105pts]
. 3x Venomthrope: 3x Toxic Lashes
+ Fast Attack +
Sky-slasher Swarms [2 PL, 45pts]: 3x Sky-slasher Swarm
Sky-slasher Swarms [2 PL, 45pts]: 3x Sky-slasher Swarm
Sky-slasher Swarms [2 PL, 45pts]: 3x Sky-slasher Swarm
++ Patrol Detachment ++
+ Configuration +
Detachment Cost [-2CP]
Hive Fleet: (Hunt) Augmented Ferocity, Leviathan
+ No Force Org Slot +
Zoanthropes [7 PL, 150pts]: Power: The Horror, 3x Zoanthrope
+ HQ +
Broodlord [6 PL, 120pts]: Power: The Horror, Warlord Trait: Alien Cunning
Neurothrope [5 PL, 100pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Onslaught, Warlord Trait: Synaptic Tendrils
+ Troops +
Gargoyles [4 PL, 80pts]
. 10x Gargoyle: 10x Fleshborer
+ Elites +
Zoanthropes [7 PL, 150pts]: Power: Hive Nexus, Power: Neuroparasite, 3x Zoanthrope
Zoanthropes [7 PL, 150pts]: Power: Hive Nexus, Power: Psychic Scream, 3x Zoanthrope
++ Total: [98 PL, 1CP, 2,000pts] ++
So the idea here is to not need to leave my ruin/defensive castle. My 3 blocks of zoanthropes, the neurothropes, the tyrant unless he can overrun back easily, the whole shebang. That cluster is amazing but the reality is I don't want to expose them unless I have to. The flyrant gives me the much wanted/needed beat stick that I've felt my lists lack though I keep switching between the Reaper of Obliterax and the Maw Claws.
The broodlords. They exist to forward deploy(with the stealers) to help me score Psychic Interrogation without needing to push my flyrant or neurothropes too far forward exposing them to being charged. They can also lay down some banners for me(hence one having alien cunning). I need to be super super smart with the forward deploy. Losing these guys getting too aggressive is a huge mistake.
The secondary function of those forward deploy units is possibly engage on all fronts. But they're more the B team in this list to make that happen, we don't wanna lose them to score 2 points on engage necessarily(the stealers may be worth it but I felt my opponent fear my old psychic list and I think this list has the same chops). I say they're the B team because we now go to my weird choice. Sky Slasher swarms. They can deepstrike, have fly so they can have encircle the prey used on them. They move 12". And most importantly, they start as 3 models in a unit. Per the new engage of all fronts rules in Nephilim, the unit's STARTING strength must be 3+ models to allow them to score engage. They're cheap-ish(not old codex lictor cheap but cheap). They're fast. And they won't break my heart to lose.
Now we go back to banners. How can I continue to do well with banners with an army who's plan is to avoid the mid-field as much as possible? Well since I traded out death leaper, I added THREE lictors. They aren't AS good as DL. But their not being able to be targetted outside 12" if hugging terrain? That's....really solid. And will frustrate my opponent.
Also can be gamed with my forward deploy force(if the broodlord is getting look out sir from like stealers behind a wall for example, but a random lictor touching terrain is somewhere between the enemy and the broodlord, you still can't shoot the broodlord since the lictor is a valid closer target. You just can't select him unless within 12" because he never got fixed like bodyguard did).
Anyways. Just sharing the whole, my gears turning thing. Yeah, I'm probably too invested into the psychic phase. But I like the list so far. One game deep did well.
