Cranial feasting / psychic interrogation CP gain

[turtletyrant]

Hey,

My question is regarding the CP you can gain by psychic interrogation and cranial feasting, more specificaly, can you get a bonus from both in the same round?

The advanced rules for CP gain states : "There are several rules that give you a chance to gain or refund CPs when you or your opponent either use a Stratagems or spend CPs to use a Stratagem. Each player can only gain or have refunded a total of 1 CP per battle round as the result of such rules, regardless of the source..."

The rules only talk about the stratagem limit, nothing about secondary objectives.

[dkng]

Afaik you can get a CP from Cranial, PsyInt and One Step Ahead all during the same round. Only OSA can't gain a point more than once per round due to the rule you cited. Cranial and PsyInt can only be used once per round as per their rules. Tyranids have no Strats that grant or refund CPs. Second dot of Enraged Reserves doesnt count as it makes the strat cost 0, it doesnt refund points.


Edit: Cranial is not once per turn - forgive me I'm retarded.

[Bohxim]

Wait. So if taking these 2 secondaries, it's almost worthless to take kraken's warlord trait for potential cp regen during opponent's turn? Since it is battle round

[dkng]

Aug 14, 2022 8:26:11 GMT Bohxim said:

Wait. So if taking these 2 secondaries, it's almost worthless to take kraken's warlord trait for potential cp regen during opponent's turn? Since it is battle round

Erm... though english is not my first language I cant see any point I've implied that. On your turn you can gain a CP from Cranial and Interrogation. On top of that you can gain a CP from OSA once per battle round, whenever your opponent uses a Strat, either on your or his turn. So, if the sun shines on you and the wind is blowing in your sails, you can gain 3 CPs per round.

[No One]

The core rule is poorly worded, but all other rules referencing it refer to CP gain generally e.g.

Stratagems that Gain or Refund CPs
The advanced rules for Command points state that you cannot gain, or have refunded, more than 1 Command point per battle round because of any rules (other than via the exceptions listed here, such as the Battle-forged CP Bonus).

MISSION RULES
Battle-forged CP Bonus: In this mission, at the start of each player’s Command phase, both players gain 1CP, not just the player whose turn it is. These CPs are Battle-forged CP bonuses, and so the limit of gaining a maximum of 1CP per turn does not apply to CPs gained as a result of this rule.

This is how basically everyone plays it (AFAIK every tournament plays it this way). In other words, 1 CP per battle round except for the exceptions (battle forged, command phase mission rules, and stratagems themselves). See DG not taking multiple/gaining multiple CP with tallyman.

dkng said:

Cranial and PsyInt can only be used once per round as per their rules.

Cranial is rolled for every time and has no inherent limitation:

Each time an enemy CHARACTER model or unit champion is destroyed by a melee attack made by a HIVE TENDRIL model from your army, roll one D6, adding 2 to the result if that HIVE TENDRIL model has the FEEDER TENDRILS keyword, and adding 2 to the result if the destroyed model has the CHARACTER keyword: on a 6+, you gain 1 Command point.

[Bohxim]

Even though cranial has no inherent limitations, it does seem to be a CP gain mechanic, wouldn't that automatically fall under the gain max 1 CP per battle round rule?
My guess is that if you fail to gain, you can keep rolling to try getting one but once you gain it, or if you gained a cp earlier from other abilities, you can't roll for cranial.
I just want to be sure. So I don't have any potential disagreements with opponents, esp friendly games

[No One]

Bohxim said:

Even though cranial has no inherent limitations, it does seem to be a CP gain mechanic, wouldn't that automatically fall under the gain max 1 CP per battle round rule?
My guess is that if you fail to gain, you can keep rolling to try getting one but once you gain it, or if you gained a cp earlier from other abilities, you can't roll for cranial.
I just want to be sure. So I don't have any potential disagreements with opponents, esp friendly games

Yes: see the first part of my post on that. The response was just a specific response to that section of dkng's post i.e. taking the rest as given (which I disagree with and doubt you'd get far with), no, you can get infinite CP in a turn with cranial.

(Also, you would still theoretically roll, just even if you got a 6 you wouldn't get any CP: pointless pedantism for this, but is something to remember that just because a roll auto-fails/can't do anything, doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't happen).

[dkng]

So what you're saying is:
You rolled high enough with PsyInt to gain a CP in psy phase so there is no way to subsequently gain any CPs with OSA or CF?

Edit: Ive done some research and it seems this is really the case - for anything to give more CPs there has to be a clear systemem that this particular thing is exempt from the "1CP per round" rule

[piersonsmuppet]

The only rules that gave 2+ CP were 8E Codex strats than refunded d3 CP, ie Tyranid Feeder Tendrils let you spend 1 CP to gain d3 CP. These were the only way to gain more than 1 CP per round outside the command phase. I think most/all have been phased out at this point, so the rare rule doesn’t apply to much (if anything).

[No One]

piersonsmuppet said:

The only rules that gave 2+ CP were 8E Codex strats than refunded d3 CP, ie Tyranid Feeder Tendrils let you spend 1 CP to gain d3 CP. These were the only way to gain more than 1 CP per round outside the command phase. I think most/all have been phased out at this point, so the rare rule doesn’t apply to much (if anything).

Assassins still have their strat. But yes, the 'strats don't count' bit is fairly irrelevant at the moment (might be something else is still around I've forgotten), but GW could definitely add something back.

(Also note that you don't need to get more than one CP back for it to matter: you could get one back from a strat, and one from another source as well.)

[Hive Bahamut]

Could you argue that the CP is "gained" just not retained?

Ex.
1.Fish back cp on 5+ movement phase
2. Psy interrogate for 11, gain CP, but can't retain due to CP ruling.
3. Cranial feast and roll 6 for a third (2nd uneligible) CP.

In all 3 instances the CP was gained, but only allowed to keep 1.

[piersonsmuppet]

Sept 23, 2022 15:00:15 GMT Hive Bahamut said:

Could you argue that the CP is "gained" just not retained?

Ex.
1.Fish back cp on 5+ movement phase
2. Psy interrogate for 11, gain CP, but can't retain due to CP ruling.
3. Cranial feast and roll 6 for a third (2nd uneligible) CP.

In all 3 instances the CP was gained, but only allowed to keep 1.

I think it’s widely accepted that the CP has to be added to your pool to have been gained. So you would have the opportunity to gain 3 CP, but only actually gain one due to the round limit. Maybe you can convince an opponent or TO that CP can be “gained”, but I think that would be rare.

[No One]

Especially since the cap rules use gain as well: 'limit of gaining a maximum of 1CP per turn'. So...yeah, I don't think there's any real argument to be made there.

[Hive Bahamut]

So instead of Cranial Feasting and Psychic Interrogation stacking, they collide with each other due to the 1 CP a turn (that Votann Ignore with their psychic CP farm)

Rulez iz hard

I am just envisioning a Lictor going to chow down on some brains and the Tyrant going "bruh, we already gained information, what do you expect to double learn?"