Rules question about encircle the prey

[mjt2017]

If I use encircle the prey to place a unit into strategic reserves, do I HAVE to bring that unit back onto the table the following turn? Or could I choose to leave it in reserve until the last turn if I wanted to?

[purestrain]

Aug 3, 2022 18:11:52 GMT mjt2017 said:

If I use encircle the prey to place a unit into strategic reserves, do I HAVE to bring that unit back onto the table the following turn? Or could I choose to leave it in reserve until the last turn if I wanted to?

Encircle says you can set it up next turn, not that you must. so I'd say you can keep them safe for last turn shenanigans 

[mjt2017]

Aug 3, 2022 18:52:32 GMT purestrain said:

Aug 3, 2022 18:11:52 GMT mjt2017 said:

If I use encircle the prey to place a unit into strategic reserves, do I HAVE to bring that unit back onto the table the following turn? Or could I choose to leave it in reserve until the last turn if I wanted to?

Encircle says you can set it up next turn, not that you must. so I'd say you can keep them safe for last turn shenanigans 

Great. I’ll soon be playing a blood angels player in a big 2v2 game and I suspect he’ll pick the secondary ‘blade of sanguinius’ on one of my neurothropes. I think it would be hilarious to use encircle the prey on turn 1 and keep the neuro in reserve until turn 5 so he can’t score any points for that secondary

[Jbizzy]

If the neuro is your warlord than you can't use synaptic imperatives until he lands back on the map.

[No One]

mjt2017 said:

If I use encircle the prey to place a unit into strategic reserves, do I HAVE to bring that unit back onto the table the following turn? Or could I choose to leave it in reserve until the last turn if I wanted to?

To start, it's not strategic reserves.

Yes, you can technically not come in the next turn. Doing so is incredibly stupid, as that is the only turn that it actually lets you come back onto the board: it has rules for how you set up in the next reinforcement step, which you can use. That's it. If you're not on the battlefield, you're destroyed and they...actually, wait, they don't max (because it's not actually a reinforcement or strategic reserves unit), but do get 5.

In the Reinforcements step of your next Movement phase, you can set that unit back up anywhere on the battlefield anywhere that is more than 9" away from any enemy models. If the battle ends and that unit is not on the battlefield, it is destroyed.

The model that accepted the challenge is destroyed.
...
If the model that accepted the challenge is a Strategic Reserve or Reinforcement unit and is destroyed as a result of not arriving on the battlefield, all of the above conditions are considered to have been satisfied.

[piersonsmuppet]

I could see opponents or a TO saying that any units entering the battlefield during the Reinforcements step are Reinforcement Units. I would clarify with the right people to make sure everyone is one the same page so there isn’t any hard feelings from a disagreement at the end if the game.

[No One]

piersonsmuppet said:

I could see opponents or a TO saying that any units entering the battlefield during the Reinforcements step are Reinforcement Units.

Eh...there's a clear definition that this doesn't meet:

Reinforcement unit: Any unit that starts the battle in a location other than on the battlefield, and is not embarked within a TRANSPORT unit that does start the battle on the battlefield, is considered to be a Reinforcement unit. Any Reinforcement units that have not been set up on the battlefield by the end of the battle count as destroyed.

And a rare rule to account for edge cases which is applicable, but doesn't count them as reinforcement units for the purposes of things other than rules that care about being 'set up' (e.g. auspex):

Repositioned and Replacement Units
Some rules enable units to teleport or else be repositioned and set back up on the battlefield. Other rules enable units to removed from the battlefield and be replaced by a new, full-strength unit, which is then set up on the battlefield. If a rule causes a unit to be removed from the battlefield and subsequently set back up, the following rules apply to it:

Rules that are triggered by or apply to units that are ‘set up on the battlefield as Reinforcements’ are also triggered by and apply to that unit when it is set up on the battlefield.
Models in units that arrived as Reinforcements count as having moved a distance in inches equal to their Move characteristic this Movement phase. If the unit has a minimum Move characteristic, it counts as having moved its maximum Move characteristic.
The unit cannot make a Normal Move, Advance, Fall Back or Remain Stationary that turn for any reason.
If that unit was within Engagement Range of an enemy unit when it was removed from the battlefield, it does not count as having Fallen Back when it is set back up on the battlefield.
If that unit Advanced this battle round, it still counts as having Advanced after it has been set back up on the battlefield.
Any destroyed models in that unit when it is removed are still destroyed when their unit is set back up on the battlefield. If they were destroyed this turn, they still count towards any Morale tests taken this turn.
Any models in that unit that have lost any wounds do not regain those wounds when they are removed, and will still have lost them when their unit is set back up on the battlefield.
Any rules that unit was being affected by when it was removed, and which would continue to affect it for a specific duration (from abilities, Stratagems, psychic powers, etc.) continue to affect that unit until such a point as they would normally have no longer applied. For example, a unit that was within range of an aura ability when it was removed would no longer be affected by that ability if it was set up outside of that aura’s range, whereas a unit that was being affected by a psychic power that lasted until the end of that turn would still be affected by it until the end of that turn.
If that unit was performing an action, that action immediately fails.
Such rules can, if they occur in the Movement phase, be used on units that arrived as Reinforcements this phase and/or on units that have already been selected to move this phase.

Note that points 5-8 do not apply to any unit that has been set up because it is replacing a destroyed unit (including units set up via a rule that instructs you to remove a unit then set it back up at its full starting strength). These rules represent new units joining the fight, rather than the existing units being repositioned on the battlefield.

But yes, if you pull this on someone without discussing it beforehand, you'd better be prepared if they disagree, because spot judgements won't necessarily be the best.

[neurothrope]

I guess my question reveals the kind of player I am, but let me ask it anyway:
Removing an unit from the battlefield but not destroying it, for exemple with "Encircle the prey", do NOT prevent it from completing an action?

Performing action (core book / wahapedia):
If a unit is destroyed, makes a Normal Move, Advances, Falls Back, attempts to manifest a psychic power, declares a charge, performs a Heroic Intervention or makes any attacks with ranged weapons after it has started to perform an action but before that action is completed, that action is failed. Otherwise, that action is successfully completed.

Encircle the prey (stratagem):
Use this Stratagem at the end of your Movement phase. Select one BURROWERS unit or unit that can FLY from your army. Remove that unit from the battlefield. In the Reinforcements step of your next Movement phase, you can set that unit back up anywhere on the battlefield anywhere that is more than 9" away from any enemy models. If the battle ends and that unit is not on the battlefield, it is destroyed. A unit cannot be selected for this Stratagem if it was set up on the battlefield this turn

Example of combo:
In my movement phase, I move a Gargoyles unit (troop, flying) within 6" of opponent's deployment zone.
At the end of the movement phase, I start the action "seed spore node".
Still at the end of the movement phase, I play "Encircle the prey" and remove the Gargoyle unit.
At the end of the turn, since the Gargoyles were not destroyed, moved further, manifesting psychic power, charging or shooting, the action is still successfully completed?!
The "spore" objective marker can't be placed within 1'' of a removed unit, but this is not required for the action to be completed.
Since no "spore" marked was placed, I can repeat in the exact same place next turn! (but this time the same unit could not use "Encricle the prey" again because it would have been set up that turn)
Rinse and repeat! (so cheesy)


Tyranids secondary objective "Spore nodes":
Seed Spore Node (Action): One Troops unit from your army can start to perform this action at the end of your Movement phase from the second battle round onwards if it is within 6" of your opponent’s deployment zone and not within 6" of any Spore Node objective markers. The action is completed at the end of your turn. If this action is successfully completed, place one objective marker anywhere within 1" of the unit that completed this action. This objective marker represents a Spore Node, but does not count as an objective marker for any rules purposes other than for this secondary objective.

[piersonsmuppet]

Encircle was errata’d to be at the end of the movement phase.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

I think the question is if they can start an action, then use encircle the prey to leave the battlefield without the action failing. I'd say no. You'd be out of range of where you started the action as you're off the battlefield.

[No One]

neurothrope said:

I guess my question reveals the kind of player I am, but let me ask it anyway:
Removing an unit from the battlefield but not destroying it, for exemple with "Encircle the prey", do NOT prevent it from completing an action?

Incorrect: see step 9 of wahapedia.ru/wh40k9ed/the-rules/rules-appendix/#Repositioned-and-Replacement-Units.

hivefleetkerrigan said:

You'd be out of range of where you started the action as you're off the battlefield.

That's not a concern for (most) actions.