Are Warp secondaries a trap?

[nidzy]

Hi all I think I’m not alone in struggling at secondaries in nephilim in competitive play. The conventional wisdom seems to be that nids can play pretty strong at interrogate and warp ritual. The problem I am having is that interrogate seems to be a trap and warp ritual can get ugly if your opponent can pressure the middle from turn 1. Most lists have at least one deny and it only takes one deny and one turn of good movement with characters on some maps to really cut out the effectiveness of this secondary. Also even with three characters that are casters I’ve found situations where I still need the third guy for spells whether that is mortal damage or filling in cuz someone died.

At the same time we don’t have a lot of better options. Do you all have any tips to make interrogate/warp ritual less of a trap?

Here is what I’ve done to try to be successful with it:

Always include a third psychic character for these actions, buff him with neuro and distribute powers accordingly. Try to set up being within 24” of a character that isn’t a psyker, don’t kill characters in the mid game if it threatens interrogate and sell out to hold the middle for three turns if needed.

[zimko]

You pretty much summed up how to make it more reliable. Additionally, you can choose to CP reroll a successful cast to try and fish for a higher cast in order to avoid getting denied. And with the 3d6 cast from a Neuro's buff, that's a pretty reliable high cast.

I don't believe they're trap secondaries at all. I use them in almost every game now.

[piersonsmuppet]

They are only a trap if you don’t build for them, making a Neurothrope pretty much mandatory if wanting to take them. If you don’t have one in the list, prepare for some trouble scoring VP (especially if the opponent can DtW).

That said, you really want 3 Characters in order to facilitate the Horror/Interrogate combo to help generate more CP and be able to cast Catalyst/Paroxysm/Onslaught in the same turn when needed without spending CP.

[nidzy]

In looking through some lists and thinking it over I think the biggest tech piece I am missing to help with this is resonance barb on my neuro to make sure he has all 3 powers I definitely want to get off and to remember to use cp to get all three if I need both mortal output and those spells in addition to the action in a turn. I think this will help manage my resources better in terms of casts. I’d previously skipped it because I haven’t had trouble getting his casts off.

[kinginyellow]

Not sure, I think having three psykers is probably enough, def if you can have 2 warp siphon's going. 1 on main caster and 1 on the ritualist.

[countkrojaer]

Ooo I didn't know that the enemy could deny a psychic action like Interrofate as if it were Smite or whatever!

[dkng]

ResBarb and Warp Siphon on a Neuro make the best Interrogator / Ritualist. 3d6 pick two and +2 to cast is hard to deny. That's why I'm tailoring a list with 2 Neuros

[vejby]

Aug 17, 2022 8:23:45 GMT dkng said:

ResBarb and Warp Siphon on a Neuro make the best Interrogator / Ritualist. 3d6 pick two and +2 to cast is hard to deny. That's why I'm tailoring a list with 2 Neuros

Against factions with 4+ deny options it makes no difference and the psychic secondaries may be a trap there, but otherwise the relic neurothrope should be the best caster for ritual and interrogation because 3d6 drop one +2 is very close to being impossible to deny normally, unless the opposing psycher has bonuses to the deny attempt.

[No One]

Always opponent dependant. But most armies aren't running anything that can reasonably shut down a boosted interrogation. Those that are (sisters are the biggest one that springs to mind), don't take it.

[dkng]

And even if they run that you can liberally cast all the other spells without risk of them being denied if you opponent is so mean to keep the deny for the secondary

[No One]

dkng said:

And even if they run that you can liberally cast all the other spells without risk of them being denied if you opponent is so mean to keep the deny for the secondary

I mean, that's not really a concern? Like VP is important, and most other important stuff are much easier to cast outside deny range: the only reason they shouldn't be using the strat is they can't spare the CP or it's not in range (e.g. Necrons at 18" of SK only), or maybe neuro can't get out of range for a key onslaught (or maybe zoan super smite). Sisters just get to chuck auto 5+ denies for free at basically everything in 24". On top of strat 4+ if they decide they really don't want you doing something.